Seaplane recovery in an alpine lake

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Curt McNamee
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Post by Curt McNamee »

Sounder wrote:Wow. I figured you'd spent the night or something. I'm really interested in the flying after diving thing. I understand that the rule of 24 hours (air) and 18 hours (nitrox) is to cater to the lowest common denominator, but 3 hours doesn't seem very long.

If you'd had the option to fly later, would you have? What kind of altitute do you think you were at (assuming you were in a non-pressurized plane). I guess if you weren't that high then flying concerns aren't as much of an issue.

Could you expand on this a bit? Maybe John could weigh in too? I'm interested. :salute:
The problem with flying is the amount of change in pressure and how fast it happens.

When you have been on a dive or dives at sea level and you are loaded up with nitrogen, jumping into an airplane that ends up with a pressurized cabin altitude of 6-8,000 feet or driving a car over a high altitude pass, can be a problem.

As soon as you go up in altitude with less pressure, the nitrogen will try and leave your body at a greater rate which could be to fast for your body to handle and cause DCS.

The decompression tables that we use when diving are set up in such a way that the nitrogen is leaving or body at a rate that should not cause DCS.

I live at at about a 600 ft elevation and my body was not off-gassing any nitrogen when I started this trip to the lake( I was equalized).

We flew up to 4,500 ft to get into the lake. As soon as we were higher than 600 ft, my body started off-gassing nitrogen, which was good. I was at the lake elevation for over 3 hrs before I got into the water. During that 3 hrs my body continued to adjust my nitrogen to that elevation.

My dive plan and computer were set up to allow for this change in pressure and the rate of nitrogen off-gassing.

After my dives, I was out of the water for another 3 hrs at the 3,000 ft altitude which gave me additional time to off-gas before flying out.

The key to what I did was that the airplane only had to climb up another 500 ft (to 3,500 ft) to get out of the lake. At that point it was all down hill to Monroe Airport. As soon as I dropped below 3,000 ft, the additional pressure actually helped to slow down my nitrogen off-gassing which is a good thing. It worked exactly the opposite as if I went up in altitude (not good).

I hope this explains what I did and why. This type of thing can be done with minimum risk if you plan it properly, follow your plan and be as conservative as possible.
Last edited by Curt McNamee on Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Sounder »

(light bulb turns on and I hear the distinct "ding" of clarity)

Ok, that makes sense. I hadn't considered the pre-dive adjustment your body was doing prior to the dive... physics never changes. It makes perfect sense now, thank you. :book:
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Post by Jeff Kruse »

Wow, a solo dive to 200' on a rebreather in dark cold water. Not my cup of tea.
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Post by mattwave »

Jeff Kruse wrote:Wow, a solo dive to 200' on a rebreather in dark cold water. Not my cup of tea.
Come on Jeff; we all know you enjoy a good CCR Solo dive every once in a while - with a cup of tea.
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Post by Jeff Kruse »

:laughing3:

Other than the diving part I would love to do all that other stuff. Realy neat. :notworthy:
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ArcticDiver
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Post by ArcticDiver »

Just curious:
With all the fuel, oil, etc. on board the flying machine did the EPA( Federal or State) get involved?

If so did they demand the airplane be removed? Or, was it exclusively an aircraft economics decision?
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Post by Curt McNamee »

ArcticDiver wrote:Just curious:
With all the fuel, oil, etc. on board the flying machine did the EPA( Federal or State) get involved?

If so did they demand the airplane be removed? Or, was it exclusively an aircraft economics decision?
The Washington State Dept of Ecology required a permit and spill containment equipment on site for the recovery.

I don't know if anyone required the plane to be removed. There are several other planes on the bottom of that lake. Recovery is a very tough job due to the depth and location of the lake.

The aircraft is in good condition so the owner felt it was worth the time and effort to recover the plane.
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John Rawlings
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Post by John Rawlings »

As a matter of fact, if you look at photo # 5 you can just see the spill boom floating on the surface in the background.

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Post by ArcticDiver »

Curt McNamee wrote:
ArcticDiver wrote:Just curious:
With all the fuel, oil, etc. on board the flying machine did the EPA( Federal or State) get involved?

If so did they demand the airplane be removed? Or, was it exclusively an aircraft economics decision?
The Washington State Dept of Ecology required a permit and spill containment equipment on site for the recovery.

I don't know if anyone required the plane to be removed. There are several other planes on the bottom of that lake. Recovery is a very tough job due to the depth and location of the lake.

The aircraft is in good condition so the owner felt it was worth the time and effort to recover the plane.
Thanks Curt.

Looks like you have similar rules there as here.

Sounds like you did a good thing and had fun doing it. Nothing can be better, eh?
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Post by Dmitchell »

ArcticDiver wrote: Nothing can be better, eh?
The Payday!
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Post by BASSMAN »

Verry cool stuff indeed! Thanks John and Kurt for sharing this adventuer!
I too, am going to be looking fwd to seeing it it ADM!


Keith. =D>
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Post by Curt McNamee »

I am spending the weekend up at the lake getting the plane ready for it's helicopter ride to Monroe Airport which should happen in two more weeks.

The plane is now suspended in the water at 50 ft in 60 ft of water and it is upside down.

We will have to turn it over and slowly bring it to the surface. The plane has to be prepared to allow water to drain as it surfaces otherwise it will break from all the water weight trapped inside.

Once it's on the surface, we will slowly move it into the shore and onto the beach.

A special sling for the fuselage has been prepared for the helicopter to hook onto for the lift out of the lake and down to the Monroe Airport.

I should have some more pictures and stories to tell on Monday.

Wish me luck!!!!!!
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Ken G
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Post by Ken G »

Keep us posted as the story unfolds. Good Luck!
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Post by TCWestby »

I too can't wait to read the entire story and see all the photos. Outstanding job on the recovery but one question, how'd they get the plane off the lake?
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Post by Joshua Smith »

TCWestby wrote:I too can't wait to read the entire story and see all the photos. Outstanding job on the recovery but one question, how'd they get the plane off the lake?
I am spending the weekend up at the lake getting the plane ready for it's helicopter ride to Monroe Airport which should happen in two more weeks.

The plane is now suspended in the water at 50 ft in 60 ft of water and it is upside down.

We will have to turn it over and slowly bring it to the surface. The plane has to be prepared to allow water to drain as it surfaces otherwise it will break from all the water weight trapped inside.

Once it's on the surface, we will slowly move it into the shore and onto the beach.

A special sling for the fuselage has been prepared for the helicopter to hook onto for the lift out of the lake and down to the Monroe Airport.

I should have some more pictures and stories to tell on Monday.

Wish me luck!!!!!!
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Post by ArcticDiver »

Dmitchell wrote:
ArcticDiver wrote: Nothing can be better, eh?
The Payday!
Of Course!

But there is Fun Money \:D/ and there is Work Money :pale: , eh?
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Post by Curt McNamee »

Well, it was a very hard weekend up at Lake Isabel. Two long days of being eaten alive by all kinds of bugs that were looking for a blood dinner, as well as all the work that went into floating this plane.

The good news is that we got the plane with the wings and tail just breaking the surface right next to shore.

We had to stop at about 3:00 PM today because I was out of gas and scrubber on my KISS rebreather ( I was out of gas to). My KISS served me well all weekend, almost 5 hrs in the water without touching or filling anything.

Next weekend, with a little luck and good weather, the plane should be out of the water and ready for a helicopter ride to Monroe Airport.

I have lots of great pictures and more stories to tell, but right now this tired body of mine is going to sack out for the night.
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DiverDown
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Post by DiverDown »

So whats the latest on the recovery?
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Post by fishb0y »

So is this the next step after pulling a couple of snowmobiles out of 25 feet of water?
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Post by Curt McNamee »

DiverDown wrote:So whats the latest on the recovery?
I am going back up to the lake this Saturday for the final push to get the plane out of the water, drained and ready for the helicopter.

We have a new lift bag that is the right shape to put under the engine cowling which will lift the entire front end out of the water.

We will then put a new lift bag under the tail to lift it out.

When the entire plane is out of the water and drained, we will winch it up onto the beach and install the lifting harness for the helicopter.
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Recovery Pictures

Post by Curt McNamee »

Ken with his airplane years past before the crash

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Aircraft tail number underwater upsidedown

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Lift Lines Attached to Float Struts

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Propeller Damage

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Float Strut Damage

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Aircraft Hanging At 60 Ft By The Propeller

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Lift Bags Now Holding Aircraft at 60 Ft

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Curt With Tools To Cut Aircraft Floats Off The Fuselage

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The Plane Finally At The Surface

Image[/img]
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Post by LCF »

This is really fun, following this story. Thanks for putting up the pictures and making it that much more real and immediate!
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Post by thelawgoddess »

wow; cool photos!!! i especially like the before and after shots showing the airplane number.
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Post by Joshua Smith »

=D> Totally cool! Thanks for sharing the pics, Curt! Good job, and don't erase the pictures before you give me my camera back!
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Post by Curt McNamee »

Well, we got the airplane on the beach on Saturday \:D/ .

I will post pictures and comments later today.
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