Northwest Dive Club

Frequently.

Joshua Smith wrote:Frequently.

I just dried out...

Kirby wrote:Wow, Cherry Pickers, Elitists Snobs......
Sounds like alot of fun but does anyone actually dive around here?

Kirby

please enlighten us with your own amazing adventures ...... i love reading trip reports.

Nwbrewer wrote:

Joshua Smith wrote:Frequently.

I just dried out...

Then you are not diving enough if you dried out.

Have done 4 dives now in the last 2 weeks on a new (to me anyway) deep wall near ASARCO on Ruston Way. I finally found it by direct nav, kind of tricky as it turns and runs straight out from shore. At the start of the wall at 145 ft, found a large GPO in what was basically a cave in the wall, similar to the big hole in the MOFO wall. The top of the wall gets deeper as it runs away from shore, we turned at 166 ft (top of the wall) and there was still more wall running off into the darkness. The mid wall is a good 40 ft vertical, lots of interesting structure. Only trouble is deco limits due to distance and depth. My computer read 78 minutes of deco before the gas switch on a dive with a 80 min run time. Took an extra 40, but was able to finish deco on 1 tank. On the way back in found a nice embossed hutch bottle, perfect condition. On the next dive had a pair of seal dive bombing us for most of the dive, kind of scary in the dark. This makes the lobster shop wall look like a little shelf. Does anyone know how to get ahold of detailed relief maps of the area? Would be cool to see the contours, hard to visualize distances when your in the dark. Crazy fun.

Kirby wrote: My computer read 78 minutes of deco before the gas switch on a dive with a 80 min run time.

sounds like fun, i am a bit confused on the above statement. your tables had a 80 minute run time but your computer said you had 78 minutes of deco?? maybe i am reading it wrong??

does your computer not calculate deco based of gases you programed into it

Sadly, my beautiful X1 is a paper weight and I am diving a Nitek duo computer. It does one gas switch, but records total deco time in the PC download showing total obligation in the event of lost deco gas. Ugly numbers. Makes you want to be sure to be redundant on deco bottles just in case. You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch. Once you've done 150 or so deco dives on it on the same 20 sites or so, you get it figured out pretty close, basically the deco gas cuts the obligation in half or so. It also doesn't give you deep stops, only a ceiling. I have found that diving at or close to the ceiling tends to make your skin crawl after the dive. I could do the dives without the computer, but basically use it as a back up guide, kind of a modified ratio decompression? Basically I dive until the deco number on the computer gets scary. How big is scary, depends.....

Kirby

Kirby wrote:Sadly, my beautiful X1 is a paper weight and I am diving a Nitek duo computer. It does one gas switch, but records total deco time in the PC download showing total obligation in the event of lost deco gas. Ugly numbers. Makes you want to be sure to be redundant on deco bottles just in case. You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch. Once you've done 150 or so deco dives on it on the same 20 sites or so, you get it figured out pretty close, basically the deco gas cuts the obligation in half or so. It also doesn't give you deep stops, only a ceiling. I have found that diving at or close to the ceiling tends to make your skin crawl after the dive. I could do the dives without the computer, but basically use it as a back up guide, kind of a modified ratio decompression? Basically I dive until the deco number on the computer gets scary. How big is scary, depends.....

Kirby

You could always cut tables w/ vplanner. Not trying to be a jerk, or anything, but I don't go below 200' without tables. 200' and shallower, I know the deco schedules well enough to fake it, as long as I have a timer. But I dive with a computer, a depth/time guage, *and* tables for any serious dive. I want to know my run time before I put my gear on.

Kirby wrote: kind of a modified ratio decompression? Basically I dive until the deco number on the computer gets scary. How big is scary, depends..... Kirby

that is pretty scary

It is the same profile every dive, takes 10 minutes to get to the top of the wall at 130, 15 to 20 or so min at depths of 140 to 200, 30 - 40 min of deco on 50-60%, isn't rocket science. 70 min or less run time typically. I did this 50 times last year.

Am going again tomorrow. Not really scary, lots of redundancy. Worse part is climbing down to the water over the rocks.

Kirby

Kirby wrote:Sadly, my beautiful X1 is a paper weight and I am diving a Nitek duo computer. It does one gas switch, but records total deco time in the PC download showing total obligation in the event of lost deco gas. Ugly numbers. Makes you want to be sure to be redundant on deco bottles just in case. You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch. Once you've done 150 or so deco dives on it on the same 20 sites or so, you get it figured out pretty close, basically the deco gas cuts the obligation in half or so. It also doesn't give you deep stops, only a ceiling. I have found that diving at or close to the ceiling tends to make your skin crawl after the dive. I could do the dives without the computer, but basically use it as a back up guide, kind of a modified ratio decompression? Basically I dive until the deco number on the computer gets scary. How big is scary, depends.....

Kirby

Kirby- look, please try and take this in perspective:

The reason you have trouble finding buddies for tech dives is because you dive this way. And because you write about it on the internet. Seriously- please try and think about it for a minute. I don't know *ANY* technically trained divers that jump in the water for a sub- 200' dive with no idea at all what their total run time will be. What you're doing is dangerous, and it will bite you right in the ass someday. I took advanced nitrox/ deco with you, and I *know* that you know better, because I was there.
Please, for the love of god, stop tempting fate like this.

I appreciate your feelings about how I dive, but you know, I have been doing it pretty steady for 5 years now, and have done all the classes, and done all the dives. I have had my share of close calls and have learned from them I can tell you within a minute or two when my dive will be complete. I don't have to write it on a slate to figure it out. I mix my own gas and dive solo a lot. I don't really need the approval of anyone in the local dive community but would like to think I have made a few friends here on the board, and have a few dedicated dive buddies who don't think I am unsafe.

Guess I am done posting, hard to get a good conversation going here without getting called names.

Kirby

Kirby wrote:
Guess I am done posting, hard to get a good conversation going here without getting called names.

Kirby

I would love to here about your dives...please post some dive reports in the future.

What's down there around 200'? I'm interested in the reason for continuing to dive those profiles. Is it for bottles like you have posted? Cool find!

Joshua Smith wrote:

Kirby wrote:Sadly, my beautiful X1 is a paper weight and I am diving a Nitek duo computer. It does one gas switch, but records total deco time in the PC download showing total obligation in the event of lost deco gas. Ugly numbers. Makes you want to be sure to be redundant on deco bottles just in case. You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch. Once you've done 150 or so deco dives on it on the same 20 sites or so, you get it figured out pretty close, basically the deco gas cuts the obligation in half or so. It also doesn't give you deep stops, only a ceiling. I have found that diving at or close to the ceiling tends to make your skin crawl after the dive. I could do the dives without the computer, but basically use it as a back up guide, kind of a modified ratio decompression? Basically I dive until the deco number on the computer gets scary. How big is scary, depends.....

Kirby

Kirby- look, please try and take this in perspective:

The reason you have trouble finding buddies for tech dives is because you dive this way. And because you write about it on the internet. Seriously- please try and think about it for a minute. I don't know *ANY* technically trained divers that jump in the water for a sub- 200' dive with no idea at all what their total run time will be. What you're doing is dangerous, and it will bite you right in the ass someday. I took advanced nitrox/ deco with you, and I *know* that you know better, because I was there.
Please, for the love of god, stop tempting fate like this.

Josh one thing about Kirby is he does around 8 or 10 dives a week with the same sub 200 profiles. He does have quite a few folks who will dive with him. problem is he is all the way down south and usually works weekends so it is a bitch to get together. Some of us are trying to get him to switch to CCR so that flying profiles will be easier and safer for him. Crist last time we dove together with Gorge we added up his TM bill for last year it was around 8K in gas. Then we proceeded to give him hell about not going CCR. His comment was I know but I like my marriage. I do not have a CCR or a pee-valve otherwise my wife would defiantly divorce me.

In the last 5 yrs he has put on more sub 200 bottom time than most of the board here has combined. When I dive my twins I run a flying profile same as he does. Now I have a intagrated computer that tells me how much time I have left at the current depth of my back gas so that helps me. And like Kirby when we have dove together OC most of the time we never touched the deco gas. running a stitch pattern on the wall coming up the whole time flying the computer and staying on back gas. Makes for a very long dive but who cares don't have to fill deco bottles. Now the Nitec is a POS of a Dive computer because it does not have a good TTS feature. It wants square profiles and yes does not give you TTS with gas switches figured in it gives you TTS with whatever gas you have it on. My Cochran gives it both ways, The Shearwater figures in the deco gases for TTS. Grant still dives a Nitec and it drives me nuts when I look at it and it says he still has helo time to go, but when you make the gas change you get the new TTS. As a BUC they are great but as a primary they suck. Kirby you could not talk her into a X-Mas present?

I have dove with Kirby a lot and do not any any way feel he is unsafe. As I said before he puts on bottom time that most people can only dream of doing. And is doing the same profiles almost all the time.

So Kirby, I have a question for you. Are there sites you are diving in the South Sound that you think would make decent experience dives for folks finishing up tech classes and looking for something other than a wreck to plan a dive on?

Kirby- look, my intention was *NOT* to attack you, but I find these 2 statements to be contradictory:

Kirby wrote:You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch.

Kirby wrote:I can tell you within a minute or two when my dive will be complete. I don't have to write it on a slate to figure it out.

I can accept that if you're diving the same profiles with the same gasses, you know the plan. But that's not what you said in the earlier post. It certainly leads anyone who reads it to the conclusion that you're jumping in the water with a Nitek Duo, a stage of deco gas, and waiting to see what the computer says to do once you've made a gas switch. Can't you see how any reasonable person would come to that conclusion?

renoun wrote:So Kirby, I have a question for you. Are there sites you are diving in the South Sound that you think would make decent experience dives for folks finishing up tech classes and looking for something other than a wreck to plan a dive on?

The best deep sites you can reach from shore.... hmmm.... Day Island Wall, just go South, very nice deep wall, max 170 or so which isn't very deep, but very cool wall.

Old town dock, I've been to 220 there, no great structure, but a good place to do lots of deco time with stuff to see at shallow depths.

The pooper pipe, been to 233 there, can follow the pipe out and back, do a surface swim to a bouy with a 125 ft direct descent to the pipe, end of pipe 145 or so,

Of course, lobster shop wall. Only place I know you can get to 300 ft from shore easily in the south sound, been to 295 there.

The Mofo wall, 135 at the top, 170 at the bottom of the vertical part, 3 nice big dens in the wall.

The Kirby wall, aka Asarco wall, 160 at the top of the wall 200 at the bottom with a slope below the cliff, been to 210 there. Found some very nice bottles here in the 130 ft range, and quite a few 1910-20's era in the shallows.

You can get to 200 at Les Davis, but it's a heck of a swim and didn't see anything past 180, nice place to do a direct descent down a line to 90 ft or so, big chain on the bouy that hangs pretty vertical.

Kirby

Joshua Smith wrote:Kirby- look, my intention was *NOT* to attack you, but I find these 2 statements to be contradictory:

Kirby wrote:You actually have no idea what your total run time is going to be until you make your gas switch.

Kirby wrote:I can tell you within a minute or two when my dive will be complete. I don't have to write it on a slate to figure it out.

I can accept that if you're diving the same profiles with the same gasses, you know the plan. But that's not what you said in the earlier post. It certainly leads anyone who reads it to the conclusion that you're jumping in the water with a Nitek Duo, a stage of deco gas, and waiting to see what the computer says to do once you've made a gas switch. Can't you see how any reasonable person would come to that conclusion?

Sure. Actually that is a completely accurate statement. This does sound a little nuts, but consider this,

I carry enough back gas that with my rate of consumption, I never use more than 2/3 of my gas so it is basically not a limiting factor in the dive.

The oxygen percentage of my back gas determines the maximum depth of the dive, so that is how deep I go.

The deco gas I carry determines how long it will take to complete my deco obligation, and I can get 40 min of deco out of a AL40. I know how much benefit I will get on the total deco obligation from experience with different gases.

After 75 minutes, I really really have to pee, and I don't dive wet so......

These are fixed parameters that govern every dive, the only things that vary are the total deco obligation and ceiling. Keep the first number reasonable, stay greater than 10 ft below the ceiling and life is good. I clear the computer on every dive.

The other variable is your dive buddy. Knowing your own capabilities and limitation does not help you if you end up rescuing your buddy who is actively trying to kill both of you.

I do use V-planner and dive off of a slate on my trimix dives since my computer doesn't get helium.

I did 390 dives in the last two years using this plan, and so far at least have been good to go. I don't just do the same dives over and over. I dive all over the sound. I just really love to dive, it's the coolest thing ever.

Kirby

loanwolf wrote:

Kirby wrote:

Picture 059.jpg

Kind of hard to take pictures of such a small object. I don't have a great camera. Once again, would be more than happy to meet anyone who wants to take a closer look.

I appreciate your feelings about how I dive, but you know, I have been doing it pretty steady for 5 years now, and have done all the classes, and done all the dives. I have had my share of close calls and have learned from them I can tell you within a minute or two when my dive will be complete. I don't have to write it on a slate to figure it out. I mix my own gas and dive solo a lot. I don't really need the approval of anyone in the local dive community but would like to think I have made a few friends here on the board, and have a few dedicated dive buddies who don't think I am unsafe.

Guess I am done posting, hard to get a good conversation going here without getting called names.

Kirby

Why don't we talk to Bruce and see if we can send it up to him for examination as to what exactly happened to it.

I have a new theory about what killed my X1. After it's last dive, I put it on the floor board of my truck on the passenger side, then turned the heater up and drove home. I didn't realize until recently just how hot it gets on the floor board right there where the heater vent is pointed. It went from really cold and deep at 150 ft, to surface pressure, then to hot, then to cool at my computer desk, too much expansion too quickly. I am willing to bet that the pressure testing they put these units through did not involve a combination of pressure changes and temperature changes. I would gladly foot postage or take it to Bruce if he is interested for a post mortem.

Kirby

renoun wrote:So Kirby, I have a question for you. Are there sites you are diving in the South Sound that you think would make decent experience dives for folks finishing up tech classes and looking for something other than a wreck to plan a dive on?

Lobster Shack is worth doing a few times. Lots of shrimp and gunnels although its not much different at 145 than it is at 90-100.

Dalco is a great wall, best at 140ish, right above the base. To the south there are some more ledges in the 155-165 range that are ok but its not really worth leaving the wall to go poke around those.

East wall of Fox Island is good but gets ledgy beyond rec depths.

Tolvia Shoal is good but requires a scooter and some luck to find boulders below 100ish feet. Best parts of this are actually the clay ledges at 30ft, right at the top.

I want to go check out the deeper parts of the old narrows bridge but that's not something most people would do for beginning tech course experince dives.

CaptnJack wrote:I want to go check out the deeper parts of the old narrows bridge but that's not something most people would do for beginning tech course experince dives.

I've done some rec-depths dives in the Narrows and really enjoyed the carved-out ledges that were huge and had totally exposed big GPOs. I can only imagine what's deep there. How deep does it go?

Also - I have to dive "Mofo Wall" just because. Where is it?

Sounder wrote:

CaptnJack wrote:I want to go check out the deeper parts of the old narrows bridge but that's not something most people would do for beginning tech course experince dives.

I've done some rec-depths dives in the Narrows and really enjoyed the carved-out ledges that were huge and had totally exposed big GPOs. I can only imagine what's deep there. How deep does it go?

200-220 but the current will kick your ass. The closer you get to mid-channel the more screwy it get across the depth profile at any given instant. i.e. surface going south, bottom going north and all sorts of crazy eddies

renoun wrote:So Kirby, I have a question for you. Are there sites you are diving in the South Sound that you think would make decent experience dives for folks finishing up tech classes and looking for something other than a wreck to plan a dive on?

Forgot a couple...

West Wall of Point Defiance is great although I am a tad nervous about deco diving there (up and downwellings + boat traffic & drifting deco is a huge mess). I have only been to ~100ft there.

North wall of Point Defiance is supposed to be good but I haven't done it.

Devil's Head in the way south sound just south of longbranch is not good.

CaptnJack wrote:

renoun wrote:So Kirby, I have a question for you. Are there sites you are diving in the South Sound that you think would make decent experience dives for folks finishing up tech classes and looking for something other than a wreck to plan a dive on?

Forgot a couple...

West Wall of Point Defiance is great although I am a tad nervous about deco diving there (up and downwellings + boat traffic & drifting deco is a huge mess). I have only been to ~100ft there.

North wall of Point Defiance is supposed to be good but I haven't done it.

Devil's Head in the way south sound just south of longbranch is not good.

North wall of Point defiance is a great dive, not deep though, I was trying to stay on the shore dives list. Fox Island West wall is actually a deep site, been to 180 there pretty easy, didn't find any structure though below the little wall.

Sunrise is actually a nice deep site too, I've lugged my duals and stages up that hill 3 times and I don't recommend it on a hot summer day. There is structure all the way down and it just keeps going. Not sure how deep it gets, only been to 150 or so.

Kirby

I'm really getting tired of the back and forth sniping about the X-1, guys. Thread locked.