Re: "Maybe you're not up on current events.....
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:11 pm
you guys only like me for my web skills. <sniff>
Established 2005
https://nwdiveclub.com/
And your knowledge of good BBQ joints.spatman wrote:you guys only like me for my web skills. <sniff>
Awwwwww spatty :'( Thats not the truth though you do have amazing web skillsspatman wrote:you guys only like me for my web skills. <sniff>
Joshua Smith wrote:Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo? With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!
CaptnJack wrote:
Spatty, please add a "BS" button while you're at it, there are numerous other posts in this thread alone that deserve it.
Bl
CaptnJack wrote: Spatty, please add a "BS" button while you're at it, there are numerous other posts in this thread alone that deserve it.
kdupreez wrote:CaptnJack wrote: Spatty, please add a "BS" button while you're at it, there are numerous other posts in this thread alone that deserve it.
that, too.Blitz wrote:And your knowledge of good BBQ joints.spatman wrote:you guys only like me for my web skills. <sniff>
... depends on who you ask ...spatman wrote: not sure if there's a "bullshit" mod though...
Tube blower....H20doctor wrote:all this bag shooting is getting me , hot and bothered.. Twss
Cherry pickin' scuba mathGeek wrote:Back when I was in Nam' in the teams, We dove single 72's to 180fsw.. did 40 min of bottom time, did a green water accent with no stinking SMB, who needs one.. we were tough back then, didn't believe in deco, did our 3 min at 10fsw, then did some free diving to 300fsw to get the blood flowing, I don't know what you all are talking about narcosis..... it's just your brain playing trick's on you, all the drag from wearing those stupid HP130's....
Don't know when you started diving - don't care - it's irrelevant. I'm not a diving instructor. Are you saying that if I had a little card that said "Instructor" on it you'd open your mind and actually consider the information given? I won't "clear" your diving activities - your results are your own responsibility. I've learned that the reason many people send an SMB to the surface on a reel from the depths is for comfort alone - it's a safety blanket that helps maintain some calm when the situation is otherwise unpleasant. Yes, as has already been mentioned, I'm aware that it can be important for tracking by a live boat. I thought there might be some other reasoning that I could learn about from you but judging by your evasion of the real discussion I guess that's all there is to it.Joshua Smith wrote:Yeah. I'll be sure and clear my next bag shot with you. Where do you get off giving advice like this? As far as I can tell, you're not an instructor. You appear to have started diving about 7 months before I did.
Hence your unwillingness to discuss the pros/cons of any of the points made - we've progressed directly to the meaningless "+1"s, the BSs, and the whining about how offended you are. I'm seeing it now, thank you.Joshua Smith wrote: And yet your opinions are issued with a certain smug, self-satisfied, and dare I say *arrogant* air of authority. I think you're a troll.
You might have to actually participate in a reasoned discussion to find out. Wipe the spittle from the corners of your mouth, take a deep breath, and I suspect you'll find out that when I dive solo it's for the same reasons plenty of others on this forum do.Joshua Smith wrote:Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo?
Don't really know, but I can tell you that I don't measure my value as a diving companion by a count of "+1"s and "Like"s on this website. You've generated an impressive amount of drama around a simple failure to comprehend: what I wrote does not imply that I always dive solo. Most of my dives I'm quite happy to do alone, but I probably share about half of them with other divers. The few dives that I feel really require a buddy I am selecting from a much smaller pool of people, but I suspect all of us who've been diving a while and gotten some experience feel the same way about planning certain dives. The key is, I like diving with people who are there to dive and to learn from each dive. I like it when people place more emphasis on their own logical progression towards competence and confidence rather than throwing money at equipment, getting religious about a particular agency, or collecting up more certifications early in their experience. I want them to be both self-critical and to be willing to offer criticism to me, and they have to be capable of an unemotional analysis of pros/cons. There may be something more that you could teach me about what we've been discussing, but you lost the plot early because of what you perceived to be an attack on your ego.Joshua Smith wrote:With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!
It is just another skill, you're absolutely right Bob. However, we don't use every one of the skills we're taught at the earliest opportunity on every dive. Each skill is intended for certain circumstances. Use the skill when it serves you some purpose, I think.Grateful Diver wrote:I don't get the "difficulty" part ... shooting a bag isn't at all difficult. I teach it regularly to some fairly inexperienced divers. It's just another skill ... if you're hesitant to use it, that just means you haven't practiced enough.
Okay, and this is what I've learned through this thread. For some it provides a calmer ascent because they are more comfortable using it to manage their depth than doing it by gauge and buoyancy control alone. Still, this is a personal thing - ascending the line is not always preferable to not ascending a line. I personally do not want to deal with holding the line and reeling it on the way up unless I feel a need for it. At a stop, I don't like to hang negative on the line - I'd rather just float freely - it's more comfortable to me now. One still needs to manage buoyancy with a line, and trying to hang comfortably in perfect position with the line takes up some of my cycles - I'd rather be free to flip through the photos on my camera, package my speargun, etc. I used to feel better having the line right from the point where I was losing sight of structure (not because I thought I needed it to manage my depth on the ascent but because I thought having some object with me was a link to the surface just like maintaining sight of the bottom on a slope), but I don't feel that way anymore. Now I just use it so the boat can track me, and as a safety measure for the final part of my ascent when I'm in a heavily trafficked area.Grateful Diver wrote: Once the bag's up, ascending a line is preferable to not ascending a line ... having a visual reference reduces the necessity to be constantly monitoring your depth. For long hangs, I find it much more relaxing.
Let me give it another try and sum it up in a nutshell. I don't object to the use of SMBs/reels - great tools and an important skill when your diving progresses past a certain point. I don't care what depth people deploy them from - I've shared some insight into what presently works for me and how that evolved, but mostly I wanted to see what the range of different practices were. What I do have a problem with is divers in open water with an aversion to green water ascents - when the shit hits the fan it sometimes becomes a factor in irrational decisions. We are all familiar with the story of divers who have lost their lives because they felt they had to follow the structure to the surface - it is panic driven. I know that OOA situations are a big concern of yours and in some cases those happen because people insist on taking the long way back to the surface - along the structure - or returning on the same path they came. I am simply wanting to make the case that green water ascents are not that bad - shifting ones viewpoint can make them quite beautiful, peaceful and enjoyable. If you find that your dive is not going well and you feel stress and/or narcosis impinging on your ability to make reasoned decisions, get shallower as soon as you can. Don't spend your time trying to navigate your way back up the slope, follow the same path back, or even deploying an SMB on a reel. Shallow up - at least to the point where you feel calm and able to make solid decisions again - deploy the SMB later. If you haven't come to grips with green water ascents (without the line), it is well worth some time and it will give you more options. That's it. Take it or leave itGrateful Diver wrote: I truly don't understand your objection ...
brought outside of the context of this argument and the personalities involved i actually think i agree with nearly everything in that paragraph.whatevah wrote: Let me give it another try and sum it up in a nutshell. I don't object to the use of SMBs/reels - great tools and an important skill when your diving progresses past a certain point. I don't care what depth people deploy them from - I've shared some insight into what presently works for me and how that evolved, but mostly I wanted to see what the range of different practices were. What I do have a problem with is divers in open water with an aversion to green water ascents - when the shit hits the fan it sometimes becomes a factor in irrational decisions. We are all familiar with the story of divers who have lost their lives because they felt they had to follow the structure to the surface - it is panic driven. I know that OOA situations are a big concern of yours and in some cases those happen because people insist on taking the long way back to the surface - along the structure - or returning on the same path they came. I am simply wanting to make the case that green water ascents are not that bad - shifting ones viewpoint can make them quite beautiful, peaceful and enjoyable. If you find that your dive is not going well and you feel stress and/or narcosis impinging on your ability to make reasoned decisions, get shallower as soon as you can. Don't spend your time trying to navigate your way back up the slope, follow the same path back, or even deploying an SMB on a reel. Shallow up - at least to the point where you feel calm and able to make solid decisions again - deploy the SMB later. If you haven't come to grips with green water ascents (without the line), it is well worth some time and it will give you more options. That's it. Take it or leave it
Well, neither do I. But in your case, I think that's an especially wise choice. I would like for this to be done with. I'll just say that I don't really object to WHAT you've been saying so much as I object to HOW you said it. Your tone reads as condescending- not just to me, but to a lot of other people, too.whatevah wrote:Don't really know, but I can tell you that I don't measure my value as a diving companion by a count of "+1"s and "Like"s on this website.
What's funny to me is that this is exactly what we did. We left the bottom at 140', and Marc shot at 90 or 100', I think. We WERE doing a no-nothin' ascent. The bag shot was a super bonus on the tail end of a crap dive.lamont wrote:i'd also say that a good tool to have would be to be able to blow off the bottom and slow down the deco, CNS and gas clocks and be able to shoot a bag more or less on the fly, or at least get it done from a first midwater/deep stop.
That pretty much sums it up as to why I even got involved in this conversation.Joshua Smith wrote:
I'll just say that I don't really object to WHAT you've been saying so much as I object to HOW you said it. Your tone reads as condescending- not just to me, but to a lot of other people, too.