"Maybe you're not up on current events.....

[Fishstiq]

I'll just say that I don't really object to WHAT you've been saying so much as I object to HOW you said it. Your tone reads as condescending- not just to me, but to a lot of other people, too.

I'm sitting here tonight working on a promo piece for the club to use at the Dive Expo. And what I'm reading in this thread is completely at odds with what I'm trying to promote as a place where friendly people come to have fun.

It's not so much what they say ... but how they say it ... that puts people off. As Joe so aptly points out, if someone new reads this stuff, it inhibits their desire to participate here.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's easy to come off as snide, condescending, or as a general ass on the interwebs. Misunderstandings happen all the time, simply because folks don't know one another in the real world. Take Bob and Chris for example. They couldn't stand each other until they met and dove together, from then on everything was cool. This board is about meeting each other, organizing, and diving. Once you meet another diver from the board, you have a sense of who they are, where they are coming from, and the tone with which a post was delivered. Maybe we should meet one another and go diving before we post or respond with piss and vinegar, it might prevent this sort of thread......? I know most of us know each other, and that's awesome, but we still have room for improvement as a dive community.

......and since most of us have met him, we know Pez is a dick....

[sitkadiver]

A like button? Just make your own.

Click to like this thread.

DANG IT!! I GOT RICK ROLLED!!!!

[ktb]

A like button? Just make your own.

Click to like this thread.

DANG IT!! I GOT RICK ROLLED!!!!

Never trust airsix.

[Dashrynn]

I'll just say that I don't really object to WHAT you've been saying so much as I object to HOW you said it. Your tone reads as condescending- not just to me, but to a lot of other people, too.

I'm sitting here tonight working on a promo piece for the club to use at the Dive Expo. And what I'm reading in this thread is completely at odds with what I'm trying to promote as a place where friendly people come to have fun.

It's not so much what they say ... but how they say it ... that puts people off. As Joe so aptly points out, if someone new reads this stuff, it inhibits their desire to participate here.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's easy to come off as snide, condescending, or as a general ass on the interwebs. Misunderstandings happen all the time, simply because folks don't know one another in the real world. Take Bob and Chris for example. They couldn't stand each other until they met and dove together, from then on everything was cool. This board is about meeting each other, organizing, and diving. Once you meet another diver from the board, you have a sense of who they are, where they are coming from, and the tone with which a post was delivered. Maybe we should meet one another and go diving before we post or respond with piss and vinegar, it might prevent this sort of thread......? I know most of us know each other, and that's awesome, but we still have room for improvement as a dive community.

......and since most of us have met him, we know Pez is a dick....

Blah blah blah that's all I heard besides I think dash was the coolest kid I ever met, admit it Joe you know you can't resist the dash.

[Agent 47]

It's easy to come off as snide, condescending, or as a general ass on the interwebs. Misunderstandings happen all the time, simply because folks don't know one another in the real world. Take Bob and Chris for example. They couldn't stand each other until they met and dove together, from then on everything was cool. This board is about meeting each other, organizing, and diving. Once you meet another diver from the board, you have a sense of who they are, where they are coming from, and the tone with which a post was delivered. Maybe we should meet one another and go diving before we post or respond with piss and vinegar, it might prevent this sort of thread......? I know most of us know each other, and that's awesome, but we still have room for improvement as a dive community.

......and since most of us have met him, we know Pez is a dick....

I have taken to pulling peoples thread history, Its actually a really good way to get to know everyone. ( ya know asside from actually meeting/ diving/ getting to know them) For example I came across your thread from when you discovered the "Spheavel" (AKA the bane of mavericks existence) reading old posts is really entertaining.

[spatman]

Frankly ... if I can make a request from one of our mods ... I'd like to see about 90% of this thread disappear ... including probably every one of my own posts.

we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, frankly.

[citycatred]

I'll just say that I don't really object to WHAT you've been saying so much as I object to HOW you said it. Your tone reads as condescending- not just to me, but to a lot of other people, too.

I'm sitting here tonight working on a promo piece for the club to use at the Dive Expo. And what I'm reading in this thread is completely at odds with what I'm trying to promote as a place where friendly people come to have fun.

It's not so much what they say ... but how they say it ... that puts people off. As Joe so aptly points out, if someone new reads this stuff, it inhibits their desire to participate here.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's easy to come off as snide, condescending, or as a general ass on the interwebs. Misunderstandings happen all the time, simply because folks don't know one another in the real world. Take Bob and Chris for example. They couldn't stand each other until they met and dove together, from then on everything was cool. This board is about meeting each other, organizing, and diving. Once you meet another diver from the board, you have a sense of who they are, where they are coming from, and the tone with which a post was delivered. Maybe we should meet one another and go diving before we post or respond with piss and vinegar, it might prevent this sort of thread......? I know most of us know each other, and that's awesome, but we still have room for improvement as a dive community.

......and since most of us have met him, we know Pez is a dick....

Blah blah blah that's all I heard besides I think dash was the coolest kid I ever met, admit it Joe you know you can't resist the dash.

[Sounder]

STRONZO!!

[Rooinater]

Thanks for sharing what happened to you guys, I'm glad you guys made it back safely, and sorry to see this thread turned into a softcore version of the Pirate4x4 message forum... This is definitely not the downward spiral I would of expected here when discussing such a serious situation. A lack of tact with a side of narcissism seemed to tank this thread conversation from productive to negative. I would agree that heavy moderation of this thread would be a good idea. Yes you are damned if you do or don't moderate, but as stated earlier it is the image of the board that is at stake.

[CaptnJack]

None of this woulda happened if we had a "BS" button

Just sayin'

[Matt S.]

Thanks for the trip report Josh. The bad ones are always the most educational.

Speaking of shooting a bag, does anyone have a link to a good video of the technique? I was never really taught it, but just sort of picked it up and I know it's something I need to study. I rarely need the skill but I'd like to be better prepared.

[dwashbur]

Thanks for the trip report Josh. The bad ones are always the most educational.

Speaking of shooting a bag, does anyone have a link to a good video of the technique? I was never really taught it, but just sort of picked it up and I know it's something I need to study. I rarely need the skill but I'd like to be better prepared.

I'd like to see such a thing as well. I've owned a couple of "safety sausage" type things for several years but never really knew what to do with them. I hear about people using them and it does seem like a good way to monitor depth for things like safety stops and all, but I'd really like to know what I'm doing before I give it a try.

[Nwbrewer]

It's easy to come off as snide, condescending, or as a general ass on the interwebs. Misunderstandings happen all the time, simply because folks don't know one another in the real world. Take Bob and Chris for example. They couldn't stand each other until they met and dove together, from then on everything was cool. This board is about meeting each other, organizing, and diving. Once you meet another diver from the board, you have a sense of who they are, where they are coming from, and the tone with which a post was delivered. Maybe we should meet one another and go diving before we post or respond with piss and vinegar, it might prevent this sort of thread......? I know most of us know each other, and that's awesome, but we still have room for improvement as a dive community.

......and since most of us have met him, we know Pez is a dick....

Joe in general I'm 100% behind this statement. Having met a lot of people on this board, I can recognize the context and intent behind most posts, even if they have occasionally been worded in a manner that, out of that context, would be offensive. Unfortunately Whatevah has made it pretty clear he has no interest in getting to know anyone here and go diving with them.

I am not here looking for dive buddies. Diving is not a social activity for me, and I'm about as interested in being in a dive "club" as I am in going to a philately convention.

Doesn't seem like there are many different way to take that, personal relationship with the author or not.

[Geek]

None of this woulda happened if we had a "BS" button

Just sayin'

+235342535645767k

I am not here looking for dive buddies. Diving is not a social activity for me, and I'm about as interested in being in a dive "club" as I am in going to a philately convention.

Just a thought, isn't this statment go against everything this board is about? Basicly telling me that your just here to drag us down, don't need you, don't want you.... so leave.

I can be a dick... self-rightous... but mostly I try to be nice about it. I've liked everyone I have met on the board, even if some are a little strange to me as I'm sure I am to them. I've dove with a lot of people here and learned a lot along the way. This is my warm fuzzy place when I'm not driving the Mod(spaty)'s nuts

[spatman]

Thanks for the trip report Josh. The bad ones are always the most educational.

Speaking of shooting a bag, does anyone have a link to a good video of the technique? I was never really taught it, but just sort of picked it up and I know it's something I need to study. I rarely need the skill but I'd like to be better prepared.

here you go, matt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpoGCzVWZs

there are plenty of us here who would be happy to show you in person, myself included.

[Grateful Diver]

Joe in general I'm 100% behind this statement. Having met a lot of people on this board, I can recognize the context and intent behind most posts, even if they have occasionally been worded in a manner that, out of that context, would be offensive. Unfortunately Whatevah has made it pretty clear he has no interest in getting to know anyone here and go diving with them.

I am not here looking for dive buddies. Diving is not a social activity for me, and I'm about as interested in being in a dive "club" as I am in going to a philately convention.

Doesn't seem like there are many different way to take that, personal relationship with the author or not.

I think, given that sentiment, this is the wrong place to be ... because we ARE a club. That's what the board was created for, what the name implies, and what the majority of its members want it to be.

We can't be "inclusive" to someone who doesn't want the same in return. People who have no interest in being a part of a "club" just don't belong here. All they end up doing is dragging everybody else down ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

Joe in general I'm 100% behind this statement. Having met a lot of people on this board, I can recognize the context and intent behind most posts, even if they have occasionally been worded in a manner that, out of that context, would be offensive. Unfortunately Whatevah has made it pretty clear he has no interest in getting to know anyone here and go diving with them.

I am not here looking for dive buddies. Diving is not a social activity for me, and I'm about as interested in being in a dive "club" as I am in going to a philately convention.

Doesn't seem like there are many different way to take that, personal relationship with the author or not.

I think, given that sentiment, this is the wrong place to be ... because we ARE a club. That's what the board was created for, what the name implies, and what the majority of its members want it to be.

We can't be "inclusive" to someone who doesn't want the same in return. People who have no interest in being a part of a "club" just don't belong here. All they end up doing is dragging everybody else down ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I don't necessarily agree, although I do see your point. Everyone is welcome here, as long as they abide by the rules- rule #1, "don't be a dick" is the cardinal one, of course. I feel that I broke that one in this thread yesterday, maybe. A little. Sorta. And for that, I apologize.
My point is that nobody should feel like they have to be buddies with any of us to participate- as long as they don't act like jerks.

[Geek]

Hmmm, maybe a clearer definition of "Jerk" is needed

[CaptnJack]

I don't necessarily agree, although I do see your point. Everyone is welcome here, as long as they abide by the rules- rule #1, "don't be a dick" is the cardinal one, of course. I feel that I broke that one in this thread yesterday, maybe. A little. Sorta. And for that, I apologize.
My point is that nobody should feel like they have to be buddies with any of us to participate- as long as they don't act like jerks.

You were fine, don't stop being you. Thank you

lol

I am happy to demo SMBs sometime, I have several.

[CaptnJack]

Hmmm, maybe a clearer definition of "Jerk" is needed

yeah whatever

[WylerBear]

I usually don't post once threads get to the point that this one has gotten to. Once the flames start, I stop reading. But I was a bit intrigued by this one because having read and re-read Pete's post that got Josh all in an uproar, I can't see what he got so upset about. I think it comes from past history and an assumption that Pete was being negative & condescending because Josh has felt that way before about Pete. Then everyone got on the band wagon and decided bashing Pete was the thing to do.
We all have our ways of communicating. And of diving. Pete's post seemed to me an honest statement of another viewpoint. It didn't get nasty until others responded that way, then he responded in kind.
Why can't people take a moment to think about what their post will sound like? I do this often. I have written many posts that have never made it past a preview. I reread what I've written and for whatever reason, decide I don't need to post it. Maybe we can add the "Are you sure?" step to submitting a post. Perhaps people would then take that second to reconsider.
Just a thought...

And I'll re-read this several times before posting.

[Grateful Diver]

To be clear, I'm not bashing Pete ... I'm bashing behavior. I had the same issue with another thread about wrecks in Lake Union. It's not personal ... I just think that asking questions is better than coming across in a way that sounds condescending and unfriendly. The latter puts people off, and makes them not want to participate ... and when that happens, the whole community becomes diminished.

I really don't think this board is for everybody. I'm on a few different boards, and they all have a different "feel" to them. This one's pretty social ... and what makes it that way is that most of us have had the opportunity to dive together and get to know each other. That's what makes us a "club" ... which is, after all, the final word in our name. If someone doesn't want to be social ... and by that I mean respectful of the other people who participate here ... then perhaps it would be better if they used their Internet time in a place where that wasn't an expectation ... The Deco Stop, for example. You can learn plenty there, if you have a thick skin and don't mind getting bruised once in a while. That's just not what this board's about ... and it's not what we SHOULD be about.

There's a difference between asking a question and making a judgmental statement. There's a difference between engaging in friendly conversation and not caring whether or not you come across like a dick. In both cases, I don't think people who engage in the latter behavior should be here.

Nothing personal ... it's just a matter of compatibility ... if we let this board descend into the realm of dickdom, it'll eventually become a place where only the same handful of people ever post here. Being purely selfish about it, I really wouldn't want to see that happen. I've met too many really nice, helpful people here ... and want this to be a place where I'm comfortable speaking frankly to them about my diving experiences and theirs ... without the burden of having to fend off people who think everything they disagree with is fair game for flaming. If I wanted that, there's plenty of other places on the Internet to find it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[enchantmentdivi]

I usually don't post once threads get to the point that this one has gotten to. Once the flames start, I stop reading. But I was a bit intrigued by this one because having read and re-read Pete's post that got Josh all in an uproar, I can't see what he got so upset about. I think it comes from past history and an assumption that Pete was being negative & condescending because Josh has felt that way before about Pete. Then everyone got on the band wagon and decided bashing Pete was the thing to do.
We all have our ways of communicating. And of diving. Pete's post seemed to me an honest statement of another viewpoint. It didn't get nasty until others responded that way, then he responded in kind.
Why can't people take a moment to think about what their post will sound like? I do this often. I have written many posts that have never made it past a preview. I reread what I've written and for whatever reason, decide I don't need to post it. Maybe we can add the "Are you sure?" step to submitting a post. Perhaps people would then take that second to reconsider.
Just a thought...

And I'll re-read this several times before posting.

Bravo! Ditto, ditto, and more ditto!

And, I think there are sure a lot of pots calling kettles black in this thread.

[Grateful Diver]

And, I think there are sure a lot of pots calling kettles black in this thread.

Most of us are a pot or a kettle at some point ... it's the nature of being a human being. The difference is in whether we recognize when we become black and make an effort to clean ourselves up.

It's easy to deal with people who sometimes go a bit overboard and say something they later regret. It's much harder to deal with people who know they're like that and don't really care. Those are very different kinds of people.

If I had been on that dive with Josh and Marc, I doubt I'd have posted about it ... not because I don't want to admit I make mistakes (I do) ... but because I know it's just going to start a train wreck. And that's really the issue. This should be a place where people aren't hesitant to participate, or made to feel stupid because they did something differently than someone else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[ktb]

Thanks for the trip report Josh. The bad ones are always the most educational.

Speaking of shooting a bag, does anyone have a link to a good video of the technique? I was never really taught it, but just sort of picked it up and I know it's something I need to study. I rarely need the skill but I'd like to be better prepared.

here you go, matt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpoGCzVWZs

there are plenty of us here who would be happy to show you in person, myself included.

And THIS is what I love about this board.

I think it comes from past history and an assumption that Pete was being negative & condescending because Josh has felt that way before about Pete.

You may be right, Georgia, but I read it the same way Josh did . . .probably because I've read a lot of other posts by Pete/whatevah that I thought were negative & condescending. In the same manner, I find that your posts are usually well thought out and helpful because I don't think I've ever seen a negative post from you. Yes, I've met you and consider you a dear friend (one made through this board--yay!), but since I haven't met Pete, I can only go by what I've read from him in the past and most of it hasn't left me warm and fuzzy.

I am not here looking for dive buddies. Diving is not a social activity for me, and I'm about as interested in being in a dive "club" as I am in going to a philately convention.

And this felt like a slap in the face. No, we're not a "traditional" club, but if you're not interested in a dive "club" of any kind, why are you a member of the Northwest Dive Club?