Spearfishing help? (NO hijacking please!)

[nwscubamom]

No, don't faint - I'm not taking up spearfishing in 2010 :geek:

I'm just trying to gather some information regarding spearfishing in some discussions I'm having with the WDFW Rockfish Advisory group. Since I don't personally know enough about the subject, I thought I'd throw some questions out there for those of you who do. If you don't feel comfortable answering these in a public forum, go ahead and PM me. Feel free to answer as many or as few as you'd like - either about yourself or friends you know who spearfish:

1. Do you think it's easier to spearfish (for ling or Black Rockfish), or to fish with hook and line (either from shore or boat)
1.5 Which method yields the most (or best) fish in the least amount of time?
2. Which is easier to spearfish successfully? Rockfish or Ling Cod (or greenling, or cabezon)?
3. When you fish for Black or Blue Rockfish, what types of habitat do you prefer? (kelp forest, rock reef, etc.)
4. The current limit for Rockfish in the Neah Bay area is 10. Have you ever had trouble getting that many, or do you find it's easy to get up to that number and wish the limit was higher?
5. And if so, how long do you devote to getting your limit, or to getting as many as you would like? Hours?
6. When you go spearfish out of Neah Bay, how many days do you spend out there? Do you get as many fish as you hope?
7. Do you have a preference for types of Rockfish? (ie: Black, Blue, Copper, Tiger, China, etc.)
8. Do you feel you know pretty well how to tell the differences between them all when underwater?
9. What's your strategy underwater? Shoot what you can easily get right away? Or swim around and scope things out, then go back and get what looks best? (or some other type of strategy?)
10. Would you rather get lings, rockfish or greenlings? Cabezon? What's preferable?
11. Have you ever been in a large school of Black rockfish while spearfishing? If so, do you seek out the largest or the closest or what's the strategy there? If you shoot one, do they all scatter? Is it hard to get another?
12. Is it easier to shoot schooling midwater fish, or ones that sit on the reef?
13. Out of all the shots you make, how many wind up as a kill?
14. If you were to have an upper size limit (like on lings, or Rockfish) do you figure you'd be able to estimate size pretty well underwater and shoot within the legal size?
15. If you don't like the sizes of the ones you've shot, do you ever leave them on the bottom and continue shooting until you get ones you really want to bring to the surface with you?
16. Do you think the season length for spearfishers and anglers should be the same?
17. Do you ever have problems avoiding lines and hooks when sharing the waters with anglers? (do you think there should be separate seasons?)
18. Do you consider Marine areas 4 and 5 to be the main places you go to spearfish?
19. Do you spearfish from shore or boat more?
20. How many times per year do you spearfish? About how many fish per year are you able to get? (and what kind are they?)
21. Some have said that spearfishing doesn't give 'fair chase' to the fish. Do you agree or disagree?
22. Have you ever seen a Yelloweye or Canary Rockfish while spearfishing?
23. What depths do you typically spearfish in?

OK, twenty+ questions are enough for now!
Thanks for helping me get a feel for this. Any info you can lend is appreciated.

- Janna

[Joshua Smith]

Not trying to hijack, here- but if you would like to see what one of the big time Florida spearfishers is like, you might want to check out This thread.

(Not saying he's like any local spearfishers- but I couldn't resist a chance to post it. What an idiot.)

(OK, sorry, that probably was a hijack. If it gets out of control, I'll split it off.)

[Seaslave]

No, don't faint - I'm not taking up spearfishing in 2010 :geek:

I'm just trying to gather some information regarding spearfishing in some discussions I'm having with the WDFW Rockfish Advisory group. Since I don't personally know enough about the subject, I thought I'd throw some questions out there for those of you who do. If you don't feel comfortable answering these in a public forum, go ahead and PM me. Feel free to answer as many or as few as you'd like - either about yourself or friends you know who spearfish:

1. Do you think it's easier to spearfish (for ling or Black Rockfish), or to fish with hook and line (either from shore or boat) Hook and line is easier, less prep. Just get in teh boat and go.
1.5 Which method yields the most (or best) fish in the least amount of time? Spearing is by far. Hook and line is kinda hit or miss. Spearing, what you see, is what you get.
2. Which is easier to spearfish successfully? Rockfish or Ling Cod (or greenling, or cabezon)? All are pretty easy. Rockfish and greenling tend to be a little more gun shy...
3. When you fish for Black or Blue Rockfish, what types of habitat do you prefer? (kelp forest, rock reef, etc.) Rocky.
4. The current limit for Rockfish in the Neah Bay area is 10. Have you ever had trouble getting that many, or do you find it's easy to get up to that number and wish the limit was higher? Wish the limit was higher.
5. And if so, how long do you devote to getting your limit, or to getting as many as you would like? Hours? Usually short trips on weekends, 2-4 hours on Saturday and Sunday.
6. When you go spearfish out of Neah Bay, how many days do you spend out there? Do you get as many fish as you hope? Don't get over enough, that's why I wish the limit was higher. Maybe twice a year.
7. Do you have a preference for types of Rockfish? (ie: Black, Blue, Copper, Tiger, China, etc.) Blacks and Blues
8. Do you feel you know pretty well how to tell the differences between them all when underwater? Yes
9. What's your strategy underwater? Shoot what you can easily get right away? Or swim around and scope things out, then go back and get what looks best? (or some other type of strategy?) Just shoot the big ones...
10. Would you rather get lings, rockfish or greenlings? Cabezon? What's preferable? Lings.
11. Have you ever been in a large school of Black rockfish while spearfishing? If so, do you seek out the largest or the closest or what's the strategy there? If you shoot one, do they all scatter? Is it hard to get another? I go after the big ones. They scatter after the shot shot but then regroup.
12. Is it easier to shoot schooling midwater fish, or ones that sit on the reef? Hmmm, moving or sitting still....
13. Out of all the shots you make, how many wind up as a kill? All of them.
14. If you were to have an upper size limit (like on lings, or Rockfish) do you figure you'd be able to estimate size pretty well underwater and shoot within the legal size? Yes.
15. If you don't like the sizes of the ones you've shot, do you ever leave them on the bottom and continue shooting until you get ones you really want to bring to the surface with you? No, no waste. I believe that is morally wrong. If you shoot it, you damn well better eat it!!!
16. Do you think the season length for spearfishers and anglers should be the same? No, actually I think spearing should be open much longer. Spearing is so much more efficient with zero bycatch and almost no waste.
17. Do you ever have problems avoiding lines and hooks when sharing the waters with anglers? (do you think there should be separate seasons?) Never been an issue.
18. Do you consider Marine areas 4 and 5 to be the main places you go to spearfish? No. I spear quite a bit in area 7 also.
19. Do you spearfish from shore or boat more? Boat only.
20. How many times per year do you spearfish? About how many fish per year are you able to get? (and what kind are they?) I usually only spearfish when Lingcod is open in area 7. I average about a dozen lingcod per season. I get to area 4&5 usually twice a year and limit out on lingcod and all blue and black rock fish.
21. Some have said that spearfishing doesn't give 'fair chase' to the fish. Do you agree or disagree? I would agree, however I don't catch and kill a dozen young rockfish to get one ling everytime I go out either. I shoot what I want and nothing else dies or is injured.
22. Have you ever seen a Yelloweye or Canary Rockfish while spearfishing? Yes.
23. What depths do you typically spearfish in? 80-120fsw.

OK, twenty+ questions are enough for now!
Thanks for helping me get a feel for this. Any info you can lend is appreciated.

- Janna

Hope my answers above help.

-Mathue

[nwscubamom]

Absolutely positively helpful.

Although I'm not getting a lot of responses here on NWDC, I've gotten quite a few from several other listservs I'm on. It's been very interesting to see the answers and see what most have in common and the variance in other answers. I'm going to try to compile the results.

I will say one thing - you spearfishers have the ultimate advantage over hook-and-line as far as being able to get exactly the species you want, and the size you want, with zero bycatch. Which is VERY cool and certainly has my admiration.

Thanks so much for answering!

- Janna

[Seaslave]

I will say one thing - you spearfishers have the ultimate advantage over hook-and-line as far as being able to get exactly the species you want, and the size you want, with zero bycatch.

That's the biggest reason I think spearfishing should have a broader season and possibly even more liberal limits! Thanks for the suvey. I look forward to seeing the compiled results.


-Mathue

[nwscubamom]

Yeah, the flipside of that is that spearfishers can accurately target and kill the largest lings (which, if they're over about 3 feet are females) or largest Black rockfish, which are the very ones that need to NOT be killed because they are the best breeders, that can produce the most robust young that can survive best and create a good, sustainable fishery.

The problem is, if there's an upper size limit imposed on lings or Black Rocks, it's too hard to tell underwater the size accurately - and if you shoot (and obviously kill) one that winds up being a smidge too large, then what? Just let it drift to the bottom, dead, to prevent yourself from getting busted? And that's totally wastage. It's a really sticky situation, as you can imagine. I completely understand why the slot limits or size restrictions for spearfishers isn't a good idea and could actually create MORE waste.

Another advantage (disadvantage) is that spearfishers can get into highly kelpy areas where hook and line fishers can't go...and that's often where Blacks hang out and seek refuge. Lots of Young of year rockfish in there (not that anyone would take them, but it just shows the kelp habitat is super rockfish haven area).

So would education be enough? Do you think once spearfishers understood about leaving the large ones alone, that they would? or once down there on the hunt, all that info could easily go out the window and the temptation of getting those big bad boys (actually big bad chicks) would take over all logic? In your opinion, what's the mentality?

Thank you SO much for your thoughts and input - it's very helpful!

- Janna

[Seaslave]

So would education be enough? Do you think once spearfishers understood about leaving the large ones alone, that they would? or once down there on the hunt, all that info could easily go out the window and the temptation of getting those big bad boys (actually big bad chicks) would take over all logic? In your opinion, what's the mentality?

I think in the case of Lingcod, education would make a difference. If spearfishers understood the consequences of shooting the largest lings, I think alot of them would change their minds. I also think that as consumers of the fish, once they tried the big ones, they'll go for the smaller ones. The smaller ones are much easier to clean and taste better. There are also alot more of the small to medium sized ones around. I also think that in the case of lingcod, imposing a max size limit isn't that far fetched. I can't think of a ling I ever shot that I couldn't have laid my speargun along side of before shooting for size reference.
Rock fish are another story. If you're trying to fill your freezer, Size Does Matter.


-Mathue

[pensacoladiver]

So would education be enough? Do you think once spearfishers understood about leaving the large ones alone, that they would? or once down there on the hunt, all that info could easily go out the window and the temptation of getting those big bad boys (actually big bad chicks) would take over all logic? In your opinion, what's the mentality?
- Janna

Education depends on the person. I know some spearo's that will leave the big girls alone. I do know a few guys that actually start drolling on themselves when they hear about a big Ling holed up somewhere.

A lot depends on the area also. If there are not too many Lings around. I tend to take the first one I see, even if it is small and will only make a sandwich. This happened quite a bit at Onamac reef last year.

[H20doctor]

1. Do you think it's easier to spearfish (for ling or Black Rockfish), or to fish with hook and line (either from shore or boat)
spearfish is the easiest.. because your hunting underwater ..
1.5 Which method yields the most (or best) fish in the least amount of time?
Spearfishing
2. Which is easier to spearfish successfully? Rockfish or Ling Cod (or greenling, or cabezon)?
All except for greenlings , because they are a very fast fish and don’t stick around for a shot… they are very skiddish
3. When you fish for Black or Blue Rockfish, what types of habitat do you prefer? (kelp forest, rock reef, etc.)
I have shot rockfish at neah bay only .. so that is both reef and rock..
4. The current limit for Rockfish in the Neah Bay area is 10. Have you ever had trouble getting that many, or do you find it's easy to get up to that number and wish the limit was higher?
Its easy to limit at Neah bay for blacks, because they are everywhere .. the limit should stay where it is .
5. And if so, how long do you devote to getting your limit, or to getting as many as you would like? Hours?
You can limit on rocks spearfishing at neah bay in about 30 mins .. they are all over .
6. When you go spearfish out of Neah Bay, how many days do you spend out there? Do you get as many fish as you hope?
We spend a weekend there, 2 times a year.. I have only spearfished lings and cabbie out of neah bay and we limit everyday, on sites off of camano Is , and Whidbey Is , No because the ling Limit is 1 per day , and cabbie is 2 per day ..
7. Do you have a preference for types of Rockfish? (ie: Black, Blue, Copper, Tiger, China, etc.)
I only have shot black rockfish , because the other types , copper , china, are not plentifull in the Neah Bay area .. I only see a china very rarely, and they are too cool of a fish to shoot..
8. Do you feel you know pretty well how to tell the differences between them all when underwater?
Yes , they all look different and are easy to distinguish ..
9. What's your strategy underwater? Shoot what you can easily get right away? Or swim around and scope things out, then go back and get what looks best? (or some other type of strategy?)
Swim and find , try to only shoot what is the biggest , if I am not sure about the shot hitting the fish , I wont take it … try to cover as much ground as possible and find the big ones , and make sure they are Legal size when hunting in those zones requiring length limits.
10. Would you rather get lings, rockfish or greenlings? Cabezon? What's preferable?
I would probably say cabezon , and Ling cod, they have the largest meat on them and taste the best ..they are also the hardest to shoot and a challenge to hunt, where rock fish are not ..
11. Have you ever been in a large school of Black rockfish while spearfishing? Yes
If so, do you seek out the largest or the closest or what's the strategy there? The largest ones
If you shoot one, do they all scatter? No they just swim around , and some come in close to see what you killed ?
Is it hard to get another.? No I have sat in the same spot at NeahBay and shot 5 fish in under 10 Mins , they just stick around for some reason ? and I guess its because the areas are not hunted that often.. so a scuba diver spearfishing at neahbay is like us seeing a ufo in the sky .. we are just not seen out there in there homes ..

12. Is it easier to shoot schooling midwater fish, or ones that sit on the reef?
Its easier to shoot fish that are on a structure, like a reef or walls , or areas of rocks and kelp..i have never tried to shoot a fish in midwater , because you have to have something to kneel on to reload and get the fish off the spear .. its very task loading spearfishing ..
13. Out of all the shots you make, how many wind up as a kill?
Every shot
14. If you were to have an upper size limit (like on lings, or Rockfish) do you figure you'd be able to estimate size pretty well underwater and shoot within the legal size?
Yes because on my gun I have makers that are 26 inches on the spear gun , So I can estimate if the Ling is big enough or not .. rockfish are easy to tell if they are small or big

15. If you don't like the sizes of the ones you've shot, do you ever leave them on the bottom and continue shooting until you get ones you really want to bring to the surface with you?
No ..Never

16. Do you think the season length for spearfishers and anglers should be the same?
Yes ..
17. Do you ever have problems avoiding lines and hooks when sharing the waters with anglers? (do you think there should be separate seasons?)
No never a boat problem with anglers, yes separate seasons

18. Do you consider Marine areas 4 and 5 to be the main places you go to spearfish?
Don’t know where those are right now as I don’t have a guide in front of me

19. Do you spearfish from shore or boat more?
Always a boat
20. How many times per year do you spearfish? About how many fish per year are you able to get? (and what kind are they?)
4 or 5 times a year .. mostly lings , black rockfish , and cabbies , the daily limit

21. Some have said that spearfishing doesn't give 'fair chase' to the fish. Do you agree or disagree?
I disagree , cause sometimes I get skunked ..
22. Have you ever seen a Yelloweye or Canary Rockfish while spearfishing?
Yes .. but only at Neah Bay

23. What depths do you typically spearfish in?
25 to 55 feet

If i knew that Large black rockfish dont spawn untill they are 15 to 20 years old ..then i would shoot only the small guys, At neah Bay the fishermen on boats Pull up these monsters from 200 feet, And these Rock fish that are Huge are not in the 20 to 65 feet depth there at Neah Bay... I think education on fish and what fish spawn and how would help re establish the rockfish population... I also think in my opinion ..that Boat Draggers and Long netting do more damage , than spearfishing.. spear Hunters dont loose fishing line.. Lures.. Hooks.. etc etc... Its a very Clean , precise way to hunt ... with No eco damage to the sound ..

[Jaksonbrown]

I just hope that in your discussions with the Fish and Game dept the finger is not pointed at spearfishing as the reason for the decline of the species. The spearfishing is absurdly limited here in the sound as it is already. Anyone who would try to compare a two week season for ling cod with a handful of spear fishermen participating could even be a pimple on the butt of the entire hook and line catch each year is ....., well,..... I don't even have words to describe the foolishness of such a notion.

If I might add a couple thoughts....
Hook and line...
While fishing for salmon this year, I hooked over two dozen ling cod. This was in only a dozen or so trips out fishing.
While fishing for rock fish, I hooked dozens of undersized, or quillbacks or what we called - by catch, that most likely died after being returned to the sea.
Also, during salmon fishing, I hooked hundreds of immature salmon that had to be thrown back. Much of these fish are so small that they don't even trip the down riggers and many get dragged to their deaths....
I am just one fisherman and I probably killed 100-150 fish in accidental, unavoidable, by-catch related incidences this year alone.
Every day I went fishing... I saw hundreds of other boats with multiple people fishing... every where I went.

Spearfishing.

I spent over 12 hours spearfishing this year for ling cod. I harvested 2. There was no by catch, there were no injured fish left to die. No rock fish were molested or harmed. I got skunked many times.
Every time I went spearfishing,.... I saw no one else spearing,.... ever.

This is not meant to hijack or be attacking in anyway,... I just think that some common sense needs to be placed when people discuss spearfishing and declining species. Commercial fishing and hook and line fishing, is the culprit IMO. Spearfishing is humane and selective. If a size limit law needs to be placed in order to maintain breeding size species... great! No problem.

Like I said, just my opinion...

[Mattleycrue76]

I have only had a very limited taste of spearfishing but my experiences echo those of Mathue, Chad, and Cory. I had a chat with the guy who was counting the catch on the dock at Neah Bay last year and he told me that they are slightly more forgiving of lings that are and inch or so undersized when caught spearing due to the magnification effect under water. After all once the fish is shot it's dead. No need to leave it once you've discovered your mistake and go shoot another one. Too bad this attitude isn't policy, I know many fishermen are (rightfully) afraid to bring back such a fish for fear of loosing their liscense or their boat.

Unless you are a principled vegetarian/vegan It's kinda hard to argue with the concept of catching what you eat, eating what you catch and not harming anything else in the process.

[pensacoladiver]

I just hope that in your discussions with the Fish and Game dept the finger is not pointed at spearfishing as the reason for the decline of the species. The spearfishing is absurdly limited here in the sound as it is already. Anyone who would try to compare a two week season for ling cod with a handful of spear fishermen participating could even be a pimple on the butt of the entire hook and line catch each year is ....., well,..... I don't even have words to describe the foolishness of such a notion.

If I might add a couple thoughts....
Hook and line...
While fishing for salmon this year, I hooked over two dozen ling cod. This was in only a dozen or so trips out fishing.
While fishing for rock fish, I hooked dozens of undersized, or quillbacks or what we called - by catch, that most likely died after being returned to the sea.
Also, during salmon fishing, I hooked hundreds of immature salmon that had to be thrown back. Much of these fish are so small that they don't even trip the down riggers and many get dragged to their deaths....
I am just one fisherman and I probably killed 100-150 fish in accidental, unavoidable, by-catch related incidences this year alone.
Every day I went fishing... I saw hundreds of other boats with multiple people fishing... every where I went.

Spearfishing.

I spent over 12 hours spearfishing this year for ling cod. I harvested 2. There was no by catch, there were no injured fish left to die. No rock fish were molested or harmed. I got skunked many times.
Every time I went spearfishing,.... I saw no one else spearing,.... ever.

This is not meant to hijack or be attacking in anyway,... I just think that some common sense needs to be placed when people discuss spearfishing and declining species. Commercial fishing and hook and line fishing, is the culprit IMO. Spearfishing is humane and selective. If a size limit law needs to be placed in order to maintain breeding size species... great! No problem.

Like I said, just my opinion...

I think you and I would get along great. Want to go spearfishing sometime?

[H20doctor]

Very Good points Corey ... As a spearo we have a very short season considered to the fisherman... And we don't even spear Salmon LOL ..

[CaptnJack]

The reason for the short season is the incredible efficiency of spearing, esp. for bottom dwelling fish with high site fidelity like lings. You can scope out locations in advance of the season, then come back and shoot a fish every day. No by-catch is great, but the high efficiency (low time per fish, capacity to limit out day after day) of spearing compared with hook & line dictates the season length, not the by-catch rate.

btw discarding a fish to shoot a bigger/better one is actually illegal, nevermind just plain wrong.

[pensacoladiver]

Very Good points Corey ... As a spearo we have a very short season considered to the fisherman... And we don't even spear Salmon LOL ..

In area 4 and possibly area 5 (don't know for sure), the Ling spear season is the same as the hook and line season.

[H20doctor]

But what is the Ratio between spear Hunters , and Fisherman.?. I would think that fishing Is the most .... considered to divers Hunting with Guns.. , As of now I only know maybe 10 divers to hunt with.... Vs people with fishing poles , and Boats, and charters..etc..etc..
Can the effect of divers who spear , really be considered in the wsdfw proposal.... ( disclaimer: I am just asking a question.. I am stupid , and Im ok with that ) :biggrin:

[Jaksonbrown]

The reason for the short season is the incredible efficiency of spearing, esp. for bottom dwelling fish with high site fidelity like lings. You can scope out locations in advance of the season, then come back and shoot a fish every day. No by-catch is great, but the high efficiency (low time per fish, capacity to limit out day after day) of spearing compared with hook & line dictates the season length, not the by-catch rate.

btw discarding a fish to shoot a bigger/better one is actually illegal, nevermind just plain wrong.

Im sorry, I just don't buy it. We have a two and half week season. We are allowed only 1 fish per day. I would be willing to wager that there less than 300 spear fishermen in the entire puget sound area. If every spear fisherman speared everyday of the season and were successful every single day we would have a combined total of 4800 lings caught. If memory serves me correctly, 07 catch report estimated over 50,000 lings caught that year.
I dont know about you, but I dont know many guys that spear every day. I bet most are lucky to spend two entire weekends spearing. Id wager that less than 1% of the total harvest is due to spearos. And lets remember,.. there is NO spearfishing for Rockfish in the sound other than in Neah Bay at all. And even if there was a short season for Rock fish, I would be willing to bet that the number of fish taken by spearos is a faaaaarrrr cry smaller than the number of fish hook and line fishermen kill off of by-catch.

Another example.... Go to your favorite sporting goods store. Go to any dive shop.... Try and find some place that sells ANY type of spearfishing equipment. It just doesnt exist. There is no demand for it because so few are doing it.
But, how many places sell and promote, ling cod tackle? Every store that sells fishing equipment......

I hate the short seasons here, but hey, it is what it is and we comply,... what gets my dander up is when people try to push to eliminate it all together based upon wrong conclusions and ill founded ideas. Impose a size limitation on harvestable ling cod and you have no argument whatsoever for abolishing spearing for ling. There is just no logic to it.
People are trying to take away something I love. Something that cannot be proven to be harming the species any more than other types of recreational fishing. If that day comes,... they will have succeeded in doing nothing more than making me into a criminal.

And hey Pensacola! Anytime your up for it... lets go.... Greenling and flounder taste great!

[pensacoladiver]

The reason for the short season is the incredible efficiency of spearing, esp. for bottom dwelling fish with high site fidelity like lings. You can scope out locations in advance of the season, then come back and shoot a fish every day. No by-catch is great, but the high efficiency (low time per fish, capacity to limit out day after day) of spearing compared with hook & line dictates the season length, not the by-catch rate.

btw discarding a fish to shoot a bigger/better one is actually illegal, nevermind just plain wrong.

Im sorry, I just don't buy it. We have a two and half week season. We are allowed only 1 fish per day. I would be willing to wager that there less than 300 spear fishermen in the entire puget sound area. If every spear fisherman speared everyday of the season and were successful every single day we would have a combined total of 4800 lings caught. If memory serves me correctly, 07 catch report estimated over 50,000 lings caught that year.
I dont know about you, but I dont know many guys that spear every day. I bet most are lucky to spend two entire weekends spearing. Id wager that less than 1% of the total harvest is due to spearos. And lets remember,.. there is NO spearfishing for Rockfish in the sound other than in Neah Bay at all. And even if there was a short season for Rock fish, I would be willing to bet that the number of fish taken by spearos is a faaaaarrrr cry smaller than the number of fish hook and line fishermen kill off of by-catch.

Another example.... Go to your favorite sporting goods store. Go to any dive shop.... Try and find some place that sells ANY type of spearfishing equipment. It just doesnt exist. There is no demand for it because so few are doing it.
But, how many places sell and promote, ling cod tackle? Every store that sells fishing equipment......

I hate the short seasons here, but hey, it is what it is and we comply,... what gets my dander up is when people try to push to eliminate it all together based upon wrong conclusions and ill founded ideas. Impose a size limitation on harvestable ling cod and you have no argument whatsoever for abolishing spearing for ling. There is just no logic to it.
People are trying to take away something I love. Something that cannot be proven to be harming the species any more than other types of recreational fishing. If that day comes,... they will have succeeded in doing nothing more than making me into a criminal.

And hey Pensacola! Anytime your up for it... lets go.... Greenling and flounder taste great!

I can see the argument for killing efficiency by scouting out the sights, IF the vis was better here. However, at many of the sights in the Sound, vis is 10-15 feet at best. So seeing one and then coming back is no guarntee you will be able to find it again.

I do love the flounder, but I'll let you have all the Greenling.
You'll have to hop on for one of the Neah Bay 2010 trips.

[nwscubamom]

Excellent comments, all of you. Thanks for chipping in your .02psi.

Now, explain this to me:
What's up with those pole spears I've seen divers using out at Neah Bay?
What circumstances are they preferable to use in?
What's the attraction to using those vs. a speargun?
What are the pros and cons to using them?

- Janna

[nwscubamom]

Oh, and while you're at it:
Explain to me why some states (California? and others?) have gone to not allowing spearfishing on scuba, but freediving only?
What's the advantages/disadvantages of this?

Sorry for the what-might-sound-like stupid questions - just trying to gain a better understanding of it all.

You guys have been great putting up with this so far!!

- Janna

[pensacoladiver]

Excellent comments, all of you. Thanks for chipping in your .02psi.

Now, explain this to me:
What's up with those pole spears I've seen divers using out at Neah Bay?
What circumstances are they preferable to use in?
What's the attraction to using those vs. a speargun?
What are the pros and cons to using them?

- Janna

For starters, price is a big advantage of the pole spear. You can get one for around $20.00
A cheap spear gun can cost upwards of $100.00 or more.

They are more of a challenge than a spear gun. They are also MUCH easier to load and by that nature, much safer than guns as they are only loaded when you have pressure on the sling itself. You can get off a lot more shots in a shorter amount of time with a pole spear than a gun.

However, you have to have a fairly strong grip to keep the thing loaded for any amount of time.

Oh yeah, they are awesome for flounder.

[CaptnJack]

Explain to me why some states (California? and others?) have gone to not allowing spearfishing on scuba, but freediving only?
What's the advantages/disadvantages of this?

1) Its effectively a no take zone deeper than X feet (depending on skill which is appealing to some fisherfolk, esp the dedicated)
2) Net it reduces efficiency and thus allows for a given numer of spearos to have a longer season while harvesting the same number of fish.

The same principles are applied to other hunting pursuits like the balance between the bow, muzzle-loader, and conventional rifle seasons for elk. WDFW is all about maximizing the recreational opportunties for a given resource. Freediving limitations can be one tool to expand opportunties in lieu of what might otherwise be (e.g) a 1 or 2 day season on scuba.

[pensacoladiver]

Oh, and while you're at it:
Explain to me why some states (California? and others?) have gone to not allowing spearfishing on scuba, but freediving only?
What's the advantages/disadvantages of this?

Sorry for the what-might-sound-like stupid questions - just trying to gain a better understanding of it all.

You guys have been great putting up with this so far!!

- Janna

The only thing I can think of is that California is chock full of nut(jobs).

Advantage to freediving is total silence... no bubble blowing to scare off any fish.

Disadvantage is only 1 breath of air. That kind of speaks for itself.

[nice-diver]

oregon answers

1. Do you think it's easier to spearfish (for ling or Black Rockfish), or to fish with hook and line (either from shore or boat)
I shot the ones I want...when I see them

1.5 Which method yields the most (or best) fish in the least amount of time?
stringer on one or two tanks

2. Which is easier to spearfish successfully? Rockfish or Ling Cod (or greenling, or cabezon)?
rock more aboundant, my guns too small for ling

3. When you fish for Black or Blue Rockfish, what types of habitat do you prefer? (kelp forest, rock reef, etc.)
rock reef of newport

4. The current limit for Rockfish in the Neah Bay area is 10. Have you ever had trouble getting that many, or do you find it's easy to get up to that number and wish the limit was higher?
oregon is like 6

5. And if so, how long do you devote to getting your limit, or to getting as many as you would like? Hours?
two dive day


6. When you go spearfish out of Neah Bay, how many days do you spend out there? Do you get as many fish as you hope?
7. Do you have a preference for types of Rockfish? (ie: Black, Blue, Copper, Tiger, China, etc.)
blacks

8. Do you feel you know pretty well how to tell the differences between them all when underwater?
blacks are most common

9. What's your strategy underwater? Shoot what you can easily get right away? Or swim around and scope things out, then go back and get what looks best? (or some other type of strategy?)
shoot the big ones when you see them

10. Would you rather get lings, rockfish or greenlings? Cabezon? What's preferable?
smaller gun goes for rocks

11. Have you ever been in a large school of Black rockfish while spearfishing? If so, do you seek out the largest or the closest or what's the strategy there? If you shoot one, do they all scatter? Is it hard to get another?
the big one and hope for a double


12. Is it easier to shoot schooling midwater fish, or ones that sit on the reef?
13. Out of all the shots you make, how many wind up as a kill?
50-50

14. If you were to have an upper size limit (like on lings, or Rockfish) do you figure you'd be able to estimate size pretty well underwater and shoot within the legal size?
another reason i don't aim for lings


15. If you don't like the sizes of the ones you've shot, do you ever leave them on the bottom and continue shooting until you get ones you really want to bring to the surface with you?
NEVER

16. Do you think the season length for spearfishers and anglers should be the same?
oregon is year round


17. Do you ever have problems avoiding lines and hooks when sharing the waters with anglers? (do you think there should be separate seasons?)
some don't like the bubbles...most don't pay attention


18. Do you consider Marine areas 4 and 5 to be the main places you go to spearfish?
19. Do you spearfish from shore or boat more?
20. How many times per year do you spearfish? About how many fish per year are you able to get? (and what kind are they?)
mostly winter time


21. Some have said that spearfishing doesn't give 'fair chase' to the fish. Do you agree or disagree?
it is still 50 luck 50% skill

22. Have you ever seen a Yelloweye or Canary Rockfish while spearfishing?
23. What depths do you typically spearfish in?
newport (off shore charleston is 35 ft deep


OK, twenty+ questions are enough for now!
Thanks for helping me get a feel for this. Any info you can lend is appreciated.

- Janna

[lamont]

The problem is, if there's an upper size limit imposed on lings or Black Rocks, it's too hard to tell underwater the size accurately - and if you shoot (and obviously kill) one that winds up being a smidge too large, then what? Just let it drift to the bottom, dead, to prevent yourself from getting busted? And that's totally wastage. It's a really sticky situation, as you can imagine. I completely understand why the slot limits or size restrictions for spearfishers isn't a good idea and could actually create MORE waste.

From the public responses it sounds like there's very minimal wastage and spearfishers are typically fairly accurate, so even if you created a bit of wastage via an upper size limit, that would probably save 20+ large fish for every 1 that was wasted this way.

The bigger problem that you might have is just noncompliance with the upper size limit, but again if you could get 80% compliance, then that's 5 fish saved for every 1 that would have been killed either way.

If the goal is just to save larger fish, then I don't see much of downside to it. I see how its not perfect, but it doesn't sound like the magnitude of any waste created would be any worse.

And education and voluntary compliance seems like an obvious first step, with zero unintended side effects -- that way accidentally shot large fish can just be legally kept and eaten.