Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:10 am

For those who may be interested still in collecting data for the nature center, here are a few ways we can use your help:
1) DIVE LOGS mentioning any type of life and @ what depth if available, current conditions, accessablity, reference points to location if no gps, life on the beach etc... within the proposed aquatic reserve boundries. The most familar site in the area being Tolmie! ANY data from any year!
2)KNOW that the NRNC will be hosting a species ID shindig sometime hopefully in the very near future. This will highlight the critters we are looking for. The Oly based Kelp Krawler club has pledged it's support.
 3)It is in discussion, that perhaps do a ID class on a Friday, followed by a large group dive at Tolmie the next day. (This was proposed by the KK club president.)  
4)KAYAKERS could be implemented in gps data collection. 
5)There is quite a bit public beach access on Anderson Island. We will be planning dives here! And no we don't know what we are really getting into. Diving the sheltered bays might be a starting point. The currents look quite intimiating around the island. 
6)Obviously film documentation would be a huge asset. 
7) using REEF protocol for dives in the area. 
   
Those interested in attending an ID class, let me know. Any info you want to donate to our cause send my way, post on the board, or email to the center.   
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:54 pm

selkie wrote:Yes they certainly can. However, I don’t know many people with ROVs in their pockets or on their boats. I could be just moving in the wrong circles. I also thought they were looking for solutions that everyone could do more like REEF. I also kind of think shooting a buoy and getting a GPS position is close to worthless. To many variables depth, current strength, current direction (assuming it is only one), length of line, belly in line from current.


The NRNC is looking for community support on all levels of diving. Any wisdom or resources you may be able to contribute to this cause is surely welcome.
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Sockmonkey
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Sockmonkey » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:57 pm

Just happy to see you buddy.

-Eric

selkie wrote:Ok maybe Eric has an ROV in his pocket but I don't actually know him. :dontknow:
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selkie
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by selkie » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:55 pm

Ok maybe Eric has an ROV in his pocket but I don't actually know him. :dontknow:
"A man must have some wit to know he is a fool"

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selkie
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by selkie » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:46 pm

Yes they certainly can. However, I don’t know many people with ROVs in their pockets or on their boats. I could be just moving in the wrong circles. I also thought they were looking for solutions that everyone could do more like REEF. I also kind of think shooting a buoy and getting a GPS position is close to worthless. To many variables depth, current strength, current direction (assuming it is only one), length of line, belly in line from current.
"A man must have some wit to know he is a fool"

Maritime Archaeological Society (MAS)
http://maritimearchaeological.org/

Northwest Diving History Association (NWDHA)
http://www.divinghistory.org/

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Sockmonkey
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Sockmonkey » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:39 pm

CaptnJack wrote:Most ROVs can give corrected WGS84 coordinates for themselves. Certainly a heck of alot easier than a diver can trying to shoot SMBs perfectly vertical and then have a boat collect the position and depth.


Most larger work class rovs may be able to provide reasonable positioning ... either with a bottom tracking sensor (an ADCP in bt mode), inertial nav ($) or acoustic positioning (USBL aided nav). The smaller inspection/observation classes can keep track of where they are with a simple compass/gryo combo but with no degree of accuracy you'd ever want to use for GIS type mapping. I know a guy who does this sort of ROV work.

Or you could carry one of these diver nav thingies... I got to fondle one recently but haven't found anyone to let me use it in the water.

Or you could carry an acoustic beacon with you and have the ship track where you are.

-Eric
"I used to do this for fun, but now, I do it for nothing" -Not Joshua Smith

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CaptnJack
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by CaptnJack » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:17 pm

selkie wrote:For GIS you need x, y , and z (i.e. longitude, latitude, depth)as columns in the data base. If you are collecting from the same site you will also need date and time. Keep the GPS on WGS84 because that is the native datum to all GPS brands. If you have the GPS in another datum every brand has different propitiatory algorithms to convert from WGS84 other datums and thus you are adding rounding errors. This errors will not be much and will most likely be masked by the error radius of the standard WAAS enabled GPS. I doubt you will need accurate time files because most peoples GPS units will not be post processing with CORE sites. There are some cheats for post correction. First, with WASS the longer you stay in one place the more accurate the position will be because the more position that are collected the more accurate the position averaging. Second, a position for a known point can be collected and the difference between know position and the collected position can be applied to all positions collected. The closure the known point collection is temporally and geographically the better this will work. The problem with all of theses cheats it that you will never know the level of accuracy for your collected data. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources developed a program to download Garmin GPS positions directly in ArcGIS http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mis/gis/tool ... armin.html

Good Luck,


Most ROVs can give corrected WGS84 coordinates for themselves. Certainly a heck of alot easier than a diver can trying to shoot SMBs perfectly vertical and then have a boat collect the position and depth.
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Waynne Fowler
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Waynne Fowler » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:48 pm

OUCH sulkie.. that just made my head hurt....
Ripper of drysuits, mocker of divers...there are no atheist divers in a mistimed Deception Pass dive. Jeremy

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selkie
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by selkie » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:00 pm

For GIS you need x, y , and z (i.e. longitude, latitude, depth)as columns in the data base. If you are collecting from the same site you will also need date and time. Keep the GPS on WGS84 because that is the native datum to all GPS brands. If you have the GPS in another datum every brand has different propitiatory algorithms to convert from WGS84 other datums and thus you are adding rounding errors. This errors will not be much and will most likely be masked by the error radius of the standard WAAS enabled GPS. I doubt you will need accurate time files because most peoples GPS units will not be post processing with CORE sites. There are some cheats for post correction. First, with WASS the longer you stay in one place the more accurate the position will be because the more position that are collected the more accurate the position averaging. Second, a position for a known point can be collected and the difference between know position and the collected position can be applied to all positions collected. The closure the known point collection is temporally and geographically the better this will work. The problem with all of theses cheats it that you will never know the level of accuracy for your collected data. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources developed a program to download Garmin GPS positions directly in ArcGIS http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mis/gis/tool ... armin.html

Good Luck,
"A man must have some wit to know he is a fool"

Maritime Archaeological Society (MAS)
http://maritimearchaeological.org/

Northwest Diving History Association (NWDHA)
http://www.divinghistory.org/

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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:47 am

   
 
For those who would be interested in a planning, meet again at the center on Tuesday March 2 at 7pm.
 
 During this meeting we will:
1.       Discuss where we want to collect data.
2.       What data is already out there.
3.       How can this work within the Aquatic Reserve.
4.       Talk about data entry and using the REEF protocol or something elce that might fit better, Identified by the type of monitoring.
5.       Make Data compatible with GIS plotting
6.       Taking underwater pictures and Video.
7.       Discuss Next steps and set the next meeting/ field collection date.
 
For those that have not had the chance to check out the REEF monitoring protocol  here is the link http://www.reef.org/programs/volunteers ... rveyMethod
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:30 pm

:boucegreen:
Alrighty yall, here it is!
January 29th at the Nisqually Reach Nature Center in Olympia @ 7pm (to accommodate those who might have to work earlier in the day.)
Come help the Nisqually Reach Nature Center with your input to help create an Aquatic Reserve in the Nisqually Reach Area! This non-profit organization provides exciting opportunities for volunteers to collect data and to promote education in the South Sound. Come join us as we discuss the proposed Aquatic Reserve and how local divers can help with preserving this rich marine ecosystem.
Snacks will be provided. Too awesome to miss! :popcorn:
PLEASE let me know if you are going to be able to attend.
NRNC is located at:
4949 D'Milluhr Dr NE
Olympia, WA 98516
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by boydski » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:44 am

Hi Jackie,

I've done a number of dives just past the Nisqually Delta drop-off, and as Richard suggests, there is a LOT of silt piled up there. The vis in the area is usually very poor as well due to the run-off from the river. There are several wrecks in the area (which is why we are typically diving there) and some interesting sites to dive along the Western side of the delta.

Here is a Bathymetric map of the area that will give you a good idea of the structure underwater. You can see how much silt has piled up just off the mouth of the river. (Note that the link is to a rather large image file).

I have spent a fair amount of time running the side-scan through the area and am very familiar with it (I live very close by). We did see a lot of grass islands floating about in late October and November, but did not see any while we were out this weekend.

I also agree with Richard about the Lurh's launch ramp. I've launched shallow draft jet boats there, but tend to use the ramps out at Johnson Point as they are much better and can be used at low tides.

Almost all of the good diving in that area are boat dives as the shoreline is so shallow that it is usually a VERY long swim to get to any significant depth. If you plan on collecting samples from 100' or deeper, you'll most likely need a boat.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.

Good luck,

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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:10 pm

Winter wrote:The summer is probably the appropriate time period for a project to start. The center only has one paid staff member and he's pretty busy. So I'm just scrounging for any info that could help us get a project started. I'll get with the director and let the board know when I have more info to give. The eel grass beds nw of the center is where I'd start to explore. N btw I love silt.


Ok that's cool. PMing my email. We can get from the 0 into the 200ft range with possible video if that's valuable to the center.
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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:06 pm

The summer is probably the appropriate time period for a project to start. The center only has one paid staff member and he's pretty busy. So I'm just scrounging for any info that could help us get a project started. I'll get with the director and let the board know when I have more info to give. The eel grass beds nw of the center is where I'd start to explore. N btw I love silt.
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:44 pm

What's your timeline for these dives?

My posse and I can do 140ish but really need to wait a few months (June/July) to ensure that the viz is worth spending the breathing gas & the time to try and document this area for the Center.

I went to the center's website but there's nothing listed regarding the DNR proposal or deeper delta habitats.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.

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Winter
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:35 pm

The areas of most interest are at depth over 100 ft. I did get to see some remote video footage in the 130-150 fsw range. I guess it's quiet an unusual ecosystem off the drop off due to nutrient waters that pour Into the sound from the nisqually river. Not going into detail right now. You can read more about the center and research projects on their site.
I've never used a scooter although I hope to get to that point. The nisqually wildlife refuge (right off I-5) just removed the last dike to convert the last of the old farmland to mudflats so it's gonna look... Flooded. Wildlife is responding phenominally! Also large pieces of earth and grass can be seen floating away from the refuge. Anyone seen these grass islands drifting while on a dive site? Maybe at sunnyside? Someone said they made it to the narrows. Currious as to how far they drift away and of the life that occupy them.
http://www.winterdiverart.com/
Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Dusty2
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Dusty2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:04 pm

I drove through there yesterday and the whole delta area is flooded right now so I doubt you would be able to see beyond the end of your nose even well out in the sound!

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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by LCF » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:58 pm

If there is anything I can do to assist in doing inventories or collecting samples, I'd be more than happy to help, even if the diving is shallow and silty.
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Re: Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:43 pm

No crazy currents there, but its silty silty silty. The delta is one big ol' mound of silt. The shallows do have eelgrass beds but its probably unpleasant there with the river up in winter. The areas I have seen are insanely shallow, like 3 to 8ft. Its not called "Nisqually Flats" for nothing :) I am up for silt tho, I have a boat, and I have 2 scooters (if you have some experience with those, one has video), so if you need a buddy let me know.

The actual ramp there by the nature center is lousy. Its flat and only usable at high tide.

The currents over by the SE tip of Anderson Island are surprisingly strong, I've seen them swirl around the Nav marker. There's kinda a bar which extends out from that IIRC. Never been diving there. Do you have a map of your proposed aquatic reserve boundaries?

Richard
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Winter
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Nisqually Reach/Anderson Island?

Post by Winter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:26 pm

Anyone ever dove from the boat launch at the end of D Millurh Rd (off Meridian rd in Oly)? I volunteer at the Nisqually Reach Nature Center that sits overlooking the refuge next to the launch. The center in a step towards ensuring the future of a healthy marine environment surrounding the Nisqually delta, the Nisqually Reach Nature Center (NRNC) has submitted a proposal to the Washington Department of Natural Resources (DNR) requesting that approx 10,000 acres of state-owned South Puget Sound waters be designated a Washington State Aquatic Reserve.
I've been working with the center on and off for 3 yrs, identifying terestrial fallout samples (invertebrates associated with juvenile salmon diet.) NOW, I'm a diver and no invert work at the moment for me. Divers will be needed to help study some of the areas past the deltas drop off and around Anderson Island.   As I'm not the center director, I'm just seeking any info that could get a new project rolling. I also live here in Oly and if there was a new dive site nearby that I can get credit to dive that would make it much sweeter. I thought that there were crazy currents in the reach, but I've got an app that says otherwise. And yes a boat launch with lots of hunters and fishers especially on the weekends. I was thinking bout exploring on slack durring the week, just the shallows, for now.
You can check out the center in more detail by visting during open hours Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays 12-4. Or see the website at
http://www.nisquallyestuary.org/
thanks
Jacqueline
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Be not the slave of your own past ... plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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