A new Dive Park at Mulkeltio?

[spatz84]

So I have heard a rumor on the wind that there is a plan to put a Dive Park similar to EUP in Mulkeltio. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?. And if so who would be planning its design and location I wonder?

S.

[Mattleycrue76]

After the ordeal last year with the State park being closed to diving and the resulting huge response from the diving comunity some of the counselmen/women indicated their willingness to consider plans for such a park. I don't know that there is an active push going on for it at this moment though. When I look at how hard it is for Bruce Higgins to get any kind of permits for his already grandfathered in park It makes me wonder if it's feasible. The only place I could imagine it going would be somewhere to the east of the Silver Cloud. The State Park side is too current sensitive to be much good as a dive park. It would be cool If it could be done and I'd gladly volunteer to help do some work on it but honestly (and I hope I'm wrong) I doubt it's gonna happen.

[CaptnJack]

The State Park (its not actually a state park anymore) side doesn't have much flat terrain either.

[Nwbrewer]

I think the odds of them putting something like EUP in anytime in the foreseeable future is pretty low due to the economics of it, as well as the politics in Olympia. A waterfront park with outdoor showers and diver friendly bathrooms is still a possibility though as they evaluate what will be done with the waterfront when they move the ferry terminal.

[mkmc]

There are some misconceptions here about the Edmonds Underwater Park that should be cleared up.
First off, pertaining to the permits, there are none for all normal features that are at the EUP. The Lopez Pontoon needed permits because of its massive size and the method in which it was sunk. Do you really think that a permit was needed for every boat, trail, and rock pile that is at the EUP? Nope.

Secondly, there is no city budget for the Underwater Park. The budget for the EUP comes from divers. As Bruce likes to joke, the city could cut the park budget by 100%, and no one would notice.
The Park is built totally by volunteer divers.

[CaptnJack]

There are some misconceptions here about the Edmonds Underwater Park that should be cleared up.
First off, pertaining to the permits, there are none for all normal features that are at the EUP. The Lopez Pontoon needed permits because of its massive size and the method in which it was sunk. Do you really think that a permit was needed for every boat, trail, and rock pile that is at the EUP? Nope.

Secondly, there is no city budget for the Underwater Park. The budget for the EUP comes from divers. As Bruce likes to joke, the city could cut the park budget by 100%, and no one would notice.
The Park is built totally by volunteer divers.

Funny you mention misconceptions... There is a generic HPA issued to Edmonds for all of the structures sunk and being sunk. I am not 100% sure who the permitee is anymore, but if you'd like I can get the HPA and share it with you. Alteration of the beds of streams and puget sound is a regulated activity.

[Nwbrewer]

There are some misconceptions here about the Edmonds Underwater Park that should be cleared up.
First off, pertaining to the permits, there are none for all normal features that are at the EUP. The Lopez Pontoon needed permits because of its massive size and the method in which it was sunk. Do you really think that a permit was needed for every boat, trail, and rock pile that is at the EUP? Nope.

Secondly, there is no city budget for the Underwater Park. The budget for the EUP comes from divers. As Bruce likes to joke, the city could cut the park budget by 100%, and no one would notice.
The Park is built totally by volunteer divers.

I believe you're correct about the underwater portions of the park, but the parking lot, restrooms, and beachfront is funded by the city (just like any other park) Finding stuff and sinking it is relatively inexpensive compared to these costs. Also as CaptnJack pointed out, there may not be permits for each individual piece of structure, but there is an overall permit for the park to exist. I would be willing to bet that if the permits that are now in place were not already secured, they would not be able to get them.

I may be wrong, but it seems like every municipality that has tried this recently (see the thread about the dive park in Sequim) has been shut down rather quickly by the state.

[CaptnJack]

I would be willing to bet that if the permits that are now in place were not already secured, they would not be able to get them.

I may be wrong, but it seems like every municipality that has tried this recently (see the thread about the dive park in Sequim) has been shut down rather quickly by the state.

Yeah EUP has the (huge) benefit of historical precedence. WDFW actually does some of their ling surveys there since its been a reserve for so long.

[mkmc]

Funny you mention misconceptions... There is a generic HPA issued to Edmonds for all of the structures sunk and being sunk. I am not 100% sure who the permitee is anymore, but if you'd like I can get the HPA and share it with you. Alteration of the beds of streams and puget sound is a regulated activity.

OK. I thought you were saying that every structure needed some kind of permit. Grated the underwater parks has permits to exist in the first place. I just wanted to make clear that constantly getting new permits in order to sink things at the park is not something that has to be done.

I believe you're correct about the underwater portions of the park, but the parking lot, restrooms, and beachfront is funded by the city (just like any other park) Finding stuff and sinking it is relatively inexpensive compared to these costs.

That is true. But correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't the location of where they want to build the dive park at Mukilteo already a park?

[Nwbrewer]

Funny you mention misconceptions... There is a generic HPA issued to Edmonds for all of the structures sunk and being sunk. I am not 100% sure who the permitee is anymore, but if you'd like I can get the HPA and share it with you. Alteration of the beds of streams and puget sound is a regulated activity.

OK. I thought you were saying that every structure needed some kind of permit. Grated the underwater parks has permits to exist in the first place. I just wanted to make clear that constantly getting new permits in order to sink things at the park is not something that has to be done.

I believe you're correct about the underwater portions of the park, but the parking lot, restrooms, and beachfront is funded by the city (just like any other park) Finding stuff and sinking it is relatively inexpensive compared to these costs.

That is true. But correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't the location of where they want to build the dive park at Mukilteo already a park?

I don't believe they have any firm plans. The location that was (briefly) tossed around was either the lighthouse park (not suitable due to bottom contour/current sensitivity or some site North of the oil dock. The area to the north is not currently a park, and has no facilities at all. (I don't even think there is access, or I'd be diving it.)

[loanwolf]

I was talking with sever Mukilteo city council members a few months ago about making the oil pier into a board walk with shops on it and a dive park around it. The land the oil pier is on and around it has been declared a Indian Artifact Heritage site and no ground work can be done to the oil dock or the area around so there is nothing that can be done to repair it. The bottom cannot be disturbed even to remove the old pilings and do repairs or total removal. But nothing says that stuff cannot be put down on bottom as long as you are not digging into it. There is a huge area both in front and behind the pier that would make a great dive park as nothing else can be done with it. From the government buildings north is all City of Everett and not City of Mukilteo. But Everett is willing to turn it over to Mukilteo if they can find a way to do something with it. but it is a long way off before we see something from what I heard. But who knows that may change. It all takes money to develop the shore side. I belive Paul Allen payed for the train station maybe we can get him to develop a dive park on the rest of the ground and put in some parking for a dive park and bathrooms.

[Nwbrewer]

I was talking with sever Mukilteo city council members a few months ago about making the oil pier into a board walk with shops on it and a dive park around it. The land the oil pier is on and around it has been declared a Indian Artifact Heritage site and no ground work can be done to the oil dock or the area around so there is nothing that can be done to repair it. The bottom cannot be disturbed even to remove the old pilings and do repairs or total removal. But nothing says that stuff cannot be put down on bottom as long as you are not digging into it. There is a huge area both in front and behind the pier that would make a great dive park as nothing else can be done with it. From the government buildings north is all City of Everett and not City of Mukilteo. But Everett is willing to turn it over to Mukilteo if they can find a way to do something with it. but it is a long way off before we see something from what I heard. But who knows that may change. It all takes money to develop the shore side. I belive Paul Allen payed for the train station maybe we can get him to develop a dive park on the rest of the ground and put in some parking for a dive park and bathrooms.

So Greg are they no longer going to move the Ferry? The last plan I saw from WSF had half the pier being torn out to make room for a 2 boat ferry dock.

I'd settle for being able to get back there again. Since the RR construction started it's been closed off. All that's NEEDED for it to be a decent dive site is a dirt parking lot (already there) and access (should be pretty easy to open back up.) The rest is just nice to haves. Being able to access the pier and junk to the north from shore again would be great.

[smike]

According to the plans when they WERE moving the ferry, there was a park at the west end of the tank farm, in fact, the area is developed, has some picnic tables and nice walkways. But you have to walk a bit to get to it, from the creek on the road on the south side of the railroad. You would have to cross the tracks, then it is paved all the way to the park. Apparently the Port of Everett has this land? I might bring a wheelbarrow and try diving there sometime. The profile near there is pretty much a straight slope past 100' according to the charts I have seen of the area, starting immediately from the shore. Probably not too exciting.

See bottom: "Edgewater Beach"

Mike

[Nwbrewer]

According to the plans when they WERE moving the ferry, there was a park at the west end of the tank farm, in fact, the area is developed, has some picnic tables and nice walkways. But you have to walk a bit to get to it, from the creek on the road on the south side of the railroad. You would have to cross the tracks, then it is paved all the way to the park. Apparently the Port of Everett has this land? I might bring a wheelbarrow and try diving there sometime. The profile near there is pretty much a straight slope past 100' according to the charts I have seen of the area, starting immediately from the shore. Probably not too exciting.

See bottom: "Edgewater Beach"

Mike

Yeah, but the last sentence -

This beach is not open to the public yet.

is problematic. That's cool that they did something, I'll have to drive up there and see he bad the access looks. If I have to cart my gear a ways that's not the end of the world.

[loanwolf]

I was talking with sever Mukilteo city council members a few months ago about making the oil pier into a board walk with shops on it and a dive park around it. The land the oil pier is on and around it has been declared a Indian Artifact Heritage site and no ground work can be done to the oil dock or the area around so there is nothing that can be done to repair it. The bottom cannot be disturbed even to remove the old pilings and do repairs or total removal. But nothing says that stuff cannot be put down on bottom as long as you are not digging into it. There is a huge area both in front and behind the pier that would make a great dive park as nothing else can be done with it. From the government buildings north is all City of Everett and not City of Mukilteo. But Everett is willing to turn it over to Mukilteo if they can find a way to do something with it. but it is a long way off before we see something from what I heard. But who knows that may change. It all takes money to develop the shore side. I belive Paul Allen payed for the train station maybe we can get him to develop a dive park on the rest of the ground and put in some parking for a dive park and bathrooms.

So Greg are they no longer going to move the Ferry? The last plan I saw from WSF had half the pier being torn out to make room for a 2 boat ferry dock.

I'd settle for being able to get back there again. Since the RR construction started it's been closed off. All that's NEEDED for it to be a decent dive site is a dirt parking lot (already there) and access (should be pretty easy to open back up.) The rest is just nice to haves. Being able to access the pier and junk to the north from shore again would be great.

From my understanding of the mess. The last estimate for the new terminal was over $300 million with more costly delays due to archaeological studies having to be done so they have put the project on hold indefinitely as of 2008. That is why I was talking to them about developing the pier into a board walk. The new ferry terminal if it does go in will probably be to the south/west of the oil dock were the government buildings are now as that is not part of the heritage site. If they ever go back to work on it. but then again who knows what is going to happen with the whole mess.

[spatz84]

Wow interesing stuff. I never thought of having a park up by the old Oil Dock but that would be a perfect place, or perhaps where the old ferry dock would be left. close to the existing amenities. Thats intersting to hear about the bottom terrain at 100 ft. in that area. Wow lots of potential it would sure be something if this could happen someday.

[John Rawlings]

From my understanding of the mess. The last estimate for the new terminal was over $300 million with more costly delays due to archaeological studies having to be done so they have put the project on hold indefinitely as of 2008. That is why I was talking to them about developing the pier into a board walk. The new ferry terminal if it does go in will probably be to the south/west of the oil dock were the government buildings are now as that is not part of the heritage site. If they ever go back to work on it. but then again who knows what is going to happen with the whole mess.

Like Jake, I'd settle for just being allowed back in there again. Some of my favorite and most relaxing dives over the years were done North of the oil pier and I really miss having access to the beach.

- John

[loanwolf]

From my understanding of the mess. The last estimate for the new terminal was over $300 million with more costly delays due to archaeological studies having to be done so they have put the project on hold indefinitely as of 2008. That is why I was talking to them about developing the pier into a board walk. The new ferry terminal if it does go in will probably be to the south/west of the oil dock were the government buildings are now as that is not part of the heritage site. If they ever go back to work on it. but then again who knows what is going to happen with the whole mess.

Like Jake, I'd settle for just being allowed back in there again. Some of my favorite and most relaxing dives over the years were done North of the oil pier and I really miss having access to the beach.

- John

I agree with you John I scooter over thier whenever I dive Mukilteo that is why I just noticed all the sring line trails are gone. It is over a 1/4 of a mile that stays around 30'-40' then starts to taper down and is not current sensitive for the most part as it is protected. It is a great area to make into a dive park in my mind. Drop a the concrete that is on site as they break it up and just put in the water. You are not digging up the bottom so no Indian artifacts problems.

[John Rawlings]

Yeah, there's already some good structure over there where the piling dolphins collapsed and the small "tire reef", not to mention all of the huge pilings that have fallen over from the main pier.

It's been so long since we had access that most of the newer divers probably have no idea how much stuff is there and how varied the marine life can be.

From your description it sounds like they will "have to" leave the old pier in place, along with any logs and such already on the bottom, so as not to disturb any artifacts that might be "in" the bottom. A few rock piles placed here and there would make that site a really nice underwater park.

- John

[sheahanmcculla]

What kind of stuff would the "Indians" leave in 50' of water that needs protecting?

[loanwolf]

The Mukilteo's village was their at that site for sever hundred years so who knows what is their. All kinds of neat things if you start to excavate.

[spatz84]

So did the indians shut the area off over there or the city of Mulkeltio? I have to wonder what the true level of interest to the indian tribe is of that area and what might be sunk in the mud there. It doesn't look like much. After reading all these post it sounds like thats a great area. Maybe I'll have to sneak over there some time.

[DiverDown]

So did the indians shut the area off over there or the city of Mulkeltio? I have to wonder what the true level of interest to the indian tribe is of that area and what might be sunk in the mud there. It doesn't look like much. After reading all these post it sounds like thats a great area. Maybe I'll have to sneak over there some time.

My understanding is that they have interest mainly for fishing/crabbing rights. I remember reading an article in the herald about it a few years back.

[Nwbrewer]

So did the indians shut the area off over there or the city of Mulkeltio? I have to wonder what the true level of interest to the indian tribe is of that area and what might be sunk in the mud there. It doesn't look like much. After reading all these post it sounds like thats a great area. Maybe I'll have to sneak over there some time.

Access was closed off when they constructed the new commuter train terminal. We used to drive through what is now the commuter terminal to get there. I don't think it was a decision to intentionally shut off access, just a by product of the construction. There wasn't really a park over there or anything, I don't think they really considered access as something important to maintain.

[CaptnJack]

So did the indians shut the area off over there or the city of Mulkeltio? I have to wonder what the true level of interest to the indian tribe is of that area and what might be sunk in the mud there. It doesn't look like much. After reading all these post it sounds like thats a great area. Maybe I'll have to sneak over there some time.

Access was closed off when they constructed the new commuter train terminal. We used to drive through what is now the commuter terminal to get there. I don't think it was a decision to intentionally shut off access, just a by product of the construction. There wasn't really a park over there or anything, I don't think they really considered access as something important to maintain.

Good thing you got a boat!