Why so combative.....?

[NWBoiler]

What I have seen at dive sites where there is more than one group of affiliated divers (classes or not) is group A talking crap about group B or picking the flyshit out of the pepper on each issue or position from any group but there own (with the expection of a select few, you know who you are). I am an affiliated diver and I find that its best not wear a hat or a t-shirt with a dive shop logo on it if I visit another shop or even dive. It's nearly like wearing the wrong colors into rival territory. To grump and be competitive is natural but to simply talk shit and throw daggers at each others backs is childish and pathetic. I don't see this all the time, but more often than not.

I think this dive community should take a look at itself and its actions, reflect and try something new, try to work together as a group to further scuba diving in the Pacific Northwest. This is a lofty expectation considering the egos involved, but one can only hope.

Vince

[ktb]

I am an affiliated diver and I find that its best not wear a hat or a t-shirt with a dive shop logo on it if I visit another shop or even dive. It's nearly like wearing the wrong colors into rival territory.

Funny you should say it that way. I do believe Geek calls his shop sweatshirt his "colors."

[Norris]

I would have to say that what you are seeing is not isolated to just groups. It happens within groups too, in smaller groups known as cliques. Tis the way of the world and how people handle personal insecurities. I have grown to accept that SCUBA is not immune to this as SCUBA consists of a very diverse gathering of people with different thoughts, ways of doing things, and ways of handling their own personal insecurities. I dont personally claim a particular shop.
When you have this many people in a group, it is impossible to avoid conflict and cliquing, imho

[wallyc72]

Too Many SCUBA Politics!!

[scottsax]

I like to dive.

I like to dive with people that are safe divers.

That's about as far as it goes for me. If you want to relive junior high school, you're welcome to, but I, for one, am pretty glad those days are over.

[NWBoiler]

I like to dive.

I like to dive with people that are safe divers.

That's about as far as it goes for me. If you want to relive junior high school, you're welcome to, but I, for one, am pretty glad those days are over.

I think you seriously missed my point! I don't care to go back to those days either!!!

I want this to be clear and understood. I did not start this post to create a pissing contest amongst divers. I did start this post to point out a intrinsic problem within the dive community (between groups of affiliated divers) and discuss it in a appropriate forum. I believe that is what this board is for, is it not!?!

Vince

[Joshua Smith]

This is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about. I know that humans tend to adapt an "us vs. them" mentality sort of naturally; but diving seems to magnify it quite a lot. I'm still not sure why divers divide themselves so quickly into different camps based on training agencies, instructors, shops, philosophies, and whatever else.

For myself, the longer I dive, the less I care about who someone was trained by, what shop they frequent, or whether or not they wear funny looking gear. If they're safe, and they're having fun, they are "doing it right", for lack of a better term. When I was in the process of collecting different c-cards as I learned to tech dive, I was fairly passionate about the whole deal. These days, I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anybody any more. And the whole "dive politics" argument seems irrelevant.

[ktb]

I like to dive.

I like to dive with people that are safe divers.

That's about as far as it goes for me. If you want to relive junior high school, you're welcome to, but I, for one, am pretty glad those days are over.

Hear, hear!

[spatman]

I did start this post to point out a intrinsic problem within the dive community (between groups of affiliated divers) and discuss it in a appropriate forum.

this is an intrinsic problem with humans. it applies to any group that is different from another group, and has been the cause of many of our history's wars, genocides, conflicts and strife.

as much as i applaud your interest in bettering the local diving community, the cynic in me has little hope that there will be a greater change for the good.

[Old Nubbins]

It is not a problem with the dive community. It is a problem with all types of recreational and sporting groups - especially ones that use internet forums. I am an avid motorcyclist and the adventure riding forum I belong to is the same way - even worse. There you have groups that focus around every manufacturer and style of riding - and can be quite venomous at times.

[Geek]

I am an affiliated diver and I find that its best not wear a hat or a t-shirt with a dive shop logo on it if I visit another shop or even dive. It's nearly like wearing the wrong colors into rival territory.

Funny you should say it that way. I do believe Geek calls his shop sweatshirt his "colors."

Just to set the record strait, I call them my colors because I find the Us Vs. Them thing EXTREMELY funny, not because I am serious about it, there have been a couple times at dive sites that I was talking to a group of divers and we were chatting away, I go dive, come out, take off my drysuit and throw my shop sweatshirt on and it goes.... QUIET, like I put on colors from a rival gang

I have introduced myself to a couple of shop owners who were suprised that I was nice and polite... I didn't know I was supposed to be a jerk, it wasn't in the OW class I had I guess...

I like you all, If I think your an ass, I'll tell you to your face, don't mean I don't like you and I'm always nice about it

[Marc]

Kyle, remind me later that I need to call you an ass.

[spatman]

kyle, you're an ass.

[Marc]

You... My friend.... You.

[ktb]

I am an affiliated diver and I find that its best not wear a hat or a t-shirt with a dive shop logo on it if I visit another shop or even dive. It's nearly like wearing the wrong colors into rival territory.

Funny you should say it that way. I do believe Geek calls his shop sweatshirt his "colors."

Just to set the record strait, I call them my colors because I find the Us Vs. Them thing EXTREMELY funny, not because I am serious about it, there have been a couple times at dive sites that I was talking to a group of divers and we were chatting away, I go dive, come out, take off my drysuit and throw my shop sweatshirt on and it goes.... QUIET, like I put on colors from a rival gang

I have introduced myself to a couple of shop owners who were suprised that I was nice and polite... I didn't know I was supposed to be a jerk, it wasn't in the OW class I had I guess...

I like you all, If I think your an ass, I'll tell you to your face, don't mean I don't like you and I'm always nice about it

When are you nice and polite?!?

[spatman]

Who's an ass?

D(B)

speaking of asses, look who's back.

who left the damn door open?

[Marc]

Ummm... that you would be you, Mr. Keyholder.

[Geek]

I KNOW I'm an ass... there are a lot of people who don't though... you know who you "might" be...

And at least give me the credit for being a polite ass..

[ktb]

Who's an ass?

D(B)

speaking of asses, look who's back.

who left the damn door open?

And in such an appropriate thread!

[Geek]

I would like to object Mr Keyholder.... Defied is an ASS and breaks rules # 1-2249759847594k ALL the time.. ban him now... please..

[Marc]

Polite ass.... Jumbo Shrimp... civil war...

[Marc]

Hey, this is a combative thread, women aren't allowed to take part in combat!

Who's an ass?

D(B)

speaking of asses, look who's back.

who left the damn door open?

And in such an appropriate thread!

[ktb]

Hey, this is a combative thread, women aren't allowed to take part in combat!

You ARE married, right?

[Geek]

Hey, this is a combative thread, women aren't allowed to take part in combat!

Who's an ass?

D(B)

speaking of asses, look who's back.

who left the damn door open?

And in such an appropriate thread!

[kagey747]

Keep in mind, if you are relatively new to the area or not pretty well steeped in the personal interrelationships of many of the NW divers, a LOT of the seemingly acidic comments and combative attitudes are exaggerated by familiarity... Crackheads, Suicidal Strokes, FishKillers, Braindead Newbies, and Leftwing Tree Huggers are often actually terms of endearment between people who are not actually buddied up for THAT dive, but who often will be buddies on other days/dives. Though there ARE some divisive cliques in the dive community overall, most of the seemingly abusive comments I've been exposed to up here are generally tongue-in-cheek parodies of conflicts reflected on other Boards.