Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

General banter about diving and why we love it.
User avatar
LCF
I've Got Gills
Posts: 5697
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm

Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by LCF »

(Apologies for the cross-post from SB, but I thought this was worth sharing in both places.)

So, anybody who reads my posts knows I'm a stickler for a dive plan and a gear check before diving. And I've recently been on a crusade about complacency, because Wes Skiles' death hit me really hard, and I'm worried that complacency may have played a role in it.

So today, Peter and I were going diving. The meet time was 4 o'clock, and the site is about a half hour away. We got home at 2:30, which would have given us plenty of time, but we dawdled (I got on the computer, and Peter took a nap) and we didn't begin to pack until after 3. So we were rushing.

I grabbed a 130 out of our stable. We put the analysis stickers on our tanks horizontal when they are full, and move them to vertical when we have used the tank. This one was horizontal, so it was a full tank. I put the backplate and wing on it, and the reg, and pressurized the reg to make sure there were no leaks. I usually check the gauge at this point, but I was in a hurry, and I forgot. (You'll hear that again.)

We put Peter's gear together and in the car, ran a quick checklist to make sure we weren't forgetting anything, and got in the car. We arrived at the site at 4:15, and several divers were already suited up, although several were not yet dressed. We announced our presence and asked if it was too late to join the group, and were told that they would wait for us.

I put the last touches on gear, got into my drysuit (why does the Fusion always seem most difficult to get on when you are short on time?) and shrugged into my gear. I did the quick breathe of a reg and check of the wing inflator that I do when it is hot (which it was) and I'm going to finish the gear check in the water. I always watch my SPG when I breathe a reg, to make sure the valve is fully open, but I was in a hurry, and I forgot.

I was pulling on my dry gloves as I trotted down to the water, and marched out to meet the group. There, we had introductions, and sorted out teams, and made a dive plan. We ran through a cursory gear check, and when we got to "gas" on the checklist, Jake asked each of us what tank we were diving. Peter and I both said we were on 130's, and given the 60 foot contemplated max depth, we had tons of gas. I usually check my SPG during the gear check and announce the cubic feet of gas that I have . . . but we were in a hurry, and I forgot.

We began the dive, and were having a great time. We found a juvenile wolf eel who came out to greet us (sadly, this means he's being regularly fed, but it was still fun to see him). We saw a large GPO in a pipe. We found several lovely nudibranchs. And 20 minutes into the dive, which is my normal time for doing it on an uncomplicated, shallow dive on big tanks, I checked my gas . . . and to my surprise, and a bit of horror, I had 1500 psi. The minute I saw the gauge, I realized what had happened -- I had grabbed a partially empty tank at home, and gotten through THREE points where I check my gas without having done so, and without having realized I had omitted an important check.

As it turned out, I had picked up two 130s from a friend who is not currently diving, and added them to our stable, but I had not gauged them or asked my friend if they were full. The analysis tapes on them were horizontal because they weren't ours -- and although I looked at the analysis, I didn't twig to that.

This was a non-event. I had plenty of gas to finish the dive. But the tank could just as easily have had 500 psi in it, and my first notice that I had screwed up could have been pulling those last breaths out of the tank. Of course, I had at least two buddies close by for whom donation would have been nothing more than an annoyance . . . but as I told my buddy for last weekend's dives, being good at emergency procedures does not mean one should take more chances of needing to use one.

I'm appalled and shaken that I, who am routinely the PITA in the group about procedures and checks, and who is currently upset for several reasons about getting sloppy and careless, could have missed THREE points in my normal routine where things get checked. And my buddies, who are supposed to be equally meticulous, didn't ask the right questions.

Lessons learned: Complacency sneaks up on ALL of us, and hurrying when you are diving is not only a bad idea, but could be lethal.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
User avatar
ljjames
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by ljjames »

Thanks for the post lynne...

I got to a dive site with a set of tanks that was at 800psi the other night, had to run home and get a fresh set. I was _sure_ that they were half full, but didn't check them on the way out the door. DID check them when I was setting up gear (as is standard) but it was a reminder to me to not be an ass and DO check them at home :) (I still think the valve must have a leak cause i SWEAR they were at 2k when i left them - though my log book says 1700) ;)

<edit: the tanks had never left the back of my truck since the previous dive>

I know this is going to bug some people but here it goes and get over it, and you can ask around to the people I have been diving with...

GUE EDGE (yes, i know other people have their acronyms, but this is what i've been using)

we all check our gas. period. before descending. We plan our turn pressure and rock bottom. period.

I don't care if they even know if GUE is animal/vegetable or mineral, the process itself works whomevers you use.

people kind of snicker at times, but everyone humors me and does it (thank you!)

and for all you who laugh at me posting this, go up and read lynnes post again.


Lamont and i were doing our buddy checks on Sunday... we had a goal in mind, we were stoked and ready to go get vid at the logs and such... he bubble checks me... good to go.... he rolls over .... champagne bubbles from his tank neck. ya, in theory i would have seen it as soon as we got underwater, but it was getting dark out, and they were not super noticeable from a distance. hands on buddy check where you are actually 'engaged' and not just going through the motions really works.
Last edited by ljjames on Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
ldevore
Compulsive Diver
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by ldevore »

Thanks for the reminder Lynne. Made me realize that although my standard pracitice is to check air at the same time points you decribe, I too have been getting a little lax at checking it when doing my bubble checks... after all, I check it when I turn my air on and I "know" the tank is full. Once again, also another reason for the "second brain" buddy to keep us all honest and remembering to take time for these important steps.

Lauri
User avatar
oregondiver
Submariner
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:16 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by oregondiver »

Thanks for posting Lynn....I had issues with some part of gear on just about each dive this past weekend. I think (know?) that I was rushing...it was freakin hot out, I was excited to hit the water...and I missed sooooo many things that I didn't end up enjoying my dives as much as I could because I spent my time beatingmyself up (underwater)...

Thanks for the timely reminder.
Shell
Discussing the Whites Fusion: "Looks like you are wearing a startrek leotard with bunched-up undies..." -Airsix

"fins are like shoes....you can never have enough pairs." -Lizard0924
User avatar
LCF
I've Got Gills
Posts: 5697
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by LCF »

Laura, we even went THROUGH the GUE EDGE -- I don't dive without doing it. But when we got to gas, we just talked about the amount of gas each person was carrying. Since I KNEW I had a full 130, that's what I reported -- and it was "just" a 60 foot dive. There are so many things about this experience that were wake-up calls. Your point about being engaged, and not just going through the motions, is a really good one.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
dsteding
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1857
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:50 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by dsteding »

Oommph. Glad things worked out. Scary part number 2 is you don't know what was in that thing, I mean your friend is probably a total mess and who knows what was in that tank . . .
Fishstiq wrote:
To clarify.........

I cannot stress enough that this is MY PROBLEM.
User avatar
LCF
I've Got Gills
Posts: 5697
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by LCF »

Well, I know my friend wouldn't have sprung for anything over 50% in a 130 cubic foot tank :)
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
User avatar
cardiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:43 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by cardiver »

ljjames wrote:Thanks for the post lynne...

I got to a dive site with a set of tanks that was at 800psi the other night, had to run home and get a fresh set. I was _sure_ that they were half full, but didn't check them on the way out the door. DID check them when I was setting up gear (as is standard) but it was a reminder to me to not be an ass and DO check them at home :) (I still think the valve must have a leak cause i SWEAR they were at 2k when i left them - though my log book says 1700) ;)

<edit: the tanks had never left the back of my truck since the previous dive>

I know this is going to bug some people but here it goes and get over it, and you can ask around to the people I have been diving with...

GUE EDGE (yes, i know other people have their acronyms, but this is what i've been using)

we all check our gas. period. before descending. We plan our turn pressure and rock bottom. period.

I don't care if they even know if GUE is animal/vegetable or mineral, the process itself works whomevers you use.

people kind of snicker at times, but everyone humors me and does it (thank you!)

and for all you who laugh at me posting this, go up and read lynnes post again.


Lamont and i were doing our buddy checks on Sunday... we had a goal in mind, we were stoked and ready to go get vid at the logs and such... he bubble checks me... good to go.... he rolls over .... champagne bubbles from his tank neck. ya, in theory i would have seen it as soon as we got underwater, but it was getting dark out, and they were not super noticeable from a distance. hands on buddy check where you are actually 'engaged' and not just going through the motions really works.
With your sac rate, do you even need more than 1000 psi in a tank, Laura?
-Ron T.
"When I'm 80 I'll take up real diving, which is done in a pub..." Ray Ives.
253-227-0856
My Dive Pics...
https://www.facebook.com/RETOPPPHOTOGRAPHY
User avatar
Tom Nic
I've Got Gills
Posts: 9368
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by Tom Nic »

LCF wrote:I grabbed a 130 out of our stable.
First of all, I want a "stable" of tanks! Sigh... imagine having so many tanks you call them a "stable". Is that kind of like a "gaggle" of geese, or a "pod" of divers?! I hereby propose that anyone with more than two tanks call their collective tanks a "Stable" of tanks!

And yes, I know that Lynne has a real stable, and I'm guessing she probably keeps her tanks there, it just struck me as funny, that's all! :angelblue:

Secondly, thanks for telling the story. Usually we (and I know you as well) do a pressure check at our vehicle before heading to the water, but I've had a time or two where a buddy is finning up and discovers they have picked up a tank that was previously used. (Of course it would ONLY be a buddy, and NEVER myself... ahem...) However, in their case it was 500 to 700 psi left in a 100, not 1500 in a 130!

Perhaps we might be a bit more nonchalant or complacent in the case of a shore dive as opposed to stepping off the back of a boat heading for a deep wall or deep wreck.

Your well taken point is that ANY of us can get in a hurry, get complacent, have a bad day, etc etc etc.

Kudos to those who have their system (GUE EDGE or whatever the heck yours is) - great systems all. But a system must be used and implemented to be worth anything, and being human beings we sometimes miss things.

Thus, reminders and stories like this are HUGE in my opinion for all of us to hear - whether you're a new diver learning the ropes or an experienced diver. How many times have I heard / read this phrase - "If it can happen to xxxxxxx, it can happen to anybody." True, true, true...

Thanks again for telling the story Lynne...
More Pics Than You Have Time To Look AT
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
User avatar
mattwave
Amphibian
Posts: 850
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:46 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by mattwave »

The one in water check that I strive to remain consistent...every diver announces their psi, period. Notice try
"Scuba Like You Love It!"
Let's go diving
dsteding
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1857
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:50 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by dsteding »

LCF wrote:Well, I know my friend wouldn't have sprung for anything over 50% in a 130 cubic foot tank :)
Knowing your cheap friends, true for sure.
Fishstiq wrote:
To clarify.........

I cannot stress enough that this is MY PROBLEM.
User avatar
ljjames
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by ljjames »

no, but my buddy does... this isnt just about the person breathing the tank, it potentially compromises the whole team.

cardiver wrote:
ljjames wrote:Thanks for the post lynne...

I got to a dive site with a set of tanks that was at 800psi the other night, had to run home and get a fresh set. I was _sure_ that they were half full, but didn't check them on the way out the door. DID check them when I was setting up gear (as is standard) but it was a reminder to me to not be an ass and DO check them at home :) (I still think the valve must have a leak cause i SWEAR they were at 2k when i left them - though my log book says 1700) ;)

<edit: the tanks had never left the back of my truck since the previous dive>

I know this is going to bug some people but here it goes and get over it, and you can ask around to the people I have been diving with...

GUE EDGE (yes, i know other people have their acronyms, but this is what i've been using)

we all check our gas. period. before descending. We plan our turn pressure and rock bottom. period.

I don't care if they even know if GUE is animal/vegetable or mineral, the process itself works whomevers you use.

people kind of snicker at times, but everyone humors me and does it (thank you!)

and for all you who laugh at me posting this, go up and read lynnes post again.


Lamont and i were doing our buddy checks on Sunday... we had a goal in mind, we were stoked and ready to go get vid at the logs and such... he bubble checks me... good to go.... he rolls over .... champagne bubbles from his tank neck. ya, in theory i would have seen it as soon as we got underwater, but it was getting dark out, and they were not super noticeable from a distance. hands on buddy check where you are actually 'engaged' and not just going through the motions really works.
With your sac rate, do you even need more than 1000 psi in a tank, Laura?
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by scottsax »

What's the GUE EDGE mnemonic?
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
User avatar
cardiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:43 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by cardiver »

scottsax wrote:What's the GUE EDGE mnemonic?
G - Goals - What do you want to do? Whats the plan?
U - Unified Team - Who does what? what order?
E - Equipment - Have had two different instructors do slightly different
things. One does the equipment matching check here. The other just goes
over any specialized equipment needs. i.e. Reels, scooters, cameras and the
like.
E - Exposure - What is the depth and time of the dive?
D - Deco - Depth and time will give you deco. What is the deco strategy?
G - Gas - Gas usage Strategy. All usable? Halvesies? Thirds?
E - Environment - Anything to watch out for or might change the dive plan.
-Ron T.
"When I'm 80 I'll take up real diving, which is done in a pub..." Ray Ives.
253-227-0856
My Dive Pics...
https://www.facebook.com/RETOPPPHOTOGRAPHY
User avatar
Tom Nic
I've Got Gills
Posts: 9368
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by Tom Nic »

Dude. Way to rock Ron! :supz:

...unless you just made that up, of course.
More Pics Than You Have Time To Look AT
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
User avatar
cardiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:43 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by cardiver »

Tom Nic wrote:Dude. Way to rock Ron! :supz:

...unless you just made that up, of course.
And I don't even have the decoder ring and I don't know the secret handshake! :neener:
-Ron T.
"When I'm 80 I'll take up real diving, which is done in a pub..." Ray Ives.
253-227-0856
My Dive Pics...
https://www.facebook.com/RETOPPPHOTOGRAPHY
User avatar
dwashbur
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:33 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by dwashbur »

cardiver wrote:
scottsax wrote:What's the GUE EDGE mnemonic?
G - Goals - What do you want to do? Whats the plan?
U - Unified Team - Who does what? what order?
E - Equipment - Have had two different instructors do slightly different
things. One does the equipment matching check here. The other just goes
over any specialized equipment needs. i.e. Reels, scooters, cameras and the
like.
E - Exposure - What is the depth and time of the dive?
D - Deco - Depth and time will give you deco. What is the deco strategy?
G - Gas - Gas usage Strategy. All usable? Halvesies? Thirds?
E - Environment - Anything to watch out for or might change the dive plan.
I was wondering that as well. Thanks for the breakdown.
Dave

"Clearly, you weren't listening to what I'm about to say."
--
Check out my Internet show:
http://www.irvingszoo.com
User avatar
ljjames
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by ljjames »

I have some additions but for the most part cardiver's covered it :)

G -Goals

U- Unified team

E- Equipment matching is the way I know it... we run though a head to toe equipment check. Long hose deployable, etc... pocket contents, lights working, etc... we do the flow check, long hose deployable in the middle bubble check at the end, but there is talk of moving long hose deployable, flow check and bubble check to end.



E- exposure

D - "minimum deco" or "planned deco" ;) Every dive is a deco dive, 1, 1, 1, 3.

G - gas - same except for we add in figuring "Rock Bottom" here. this is where we also make a real point to figure turn pressures for the biggest consumer and/or smallest tank... we (I) also like to unclip the pressure gauge, look at it, and re-clip it in... this assures me (and you) that your pressure gauge is accessible. Nothing like being on the Doria, recovering the artifact of a lifetime and when you go to check your gas, your pressure gauge is trapped (yes, this happened, to a "DIR" dive). Hopefully we caught it already in the pre-dive buddy check, but this is another nice place to check it before you get underwater since it's easy to cross your drysuit hose over it or something...

E - Environment

cardiver wrote:
scottsax wrote:What's the GUE EDGE mnemonic?
G - Goals - What do you want to do? Whats the plan?
U - Unified Team - Who does what? what order?
E - Equipment - Have had two different instructors do slightly different
things. One does the equipment matching check here. The other just goes
over any specialized equipment needs. i.e. Reels, scooters, cameras and the
like.
E - Exposure - What is the depth and time of the dive?
D - Deco - Depth and time will give you deco. What is the deco strategy?
G - Gas - Gas usage Strategy. All usable? Halvesies? Thirds?
E - Environment - Anything to watch out for or might change the dive plan.
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by spatman »

another mnemonic is SADDDDD. (though i tend to forget a D occasionally... ;) )

from dir-diver.com:
S - Sequence
A - Air
D - Depth
D - Direction
D - Distance
D - Duration
D - Deco

S stands for Sequence, which means in what order are we going to dive and also how the dive will proceed. For instance Bob will lead the dive, followed by Andy in second and Sue in third position. Our plan is to dive the wreck, find the bell if possible and then return to the upline.

A is Air which in our case means breathing gas. So here we defined how much gas we will use, how much will be our reserve gas and when we will turn the dive. During this we also check our pressure gauges to make any adjustments. For example we will use one third of our gas supply for this dive going in and one third coming out. Vicky has 3300 psi so a third is 1100 psi. John has only 3200 psi so a third is 1000 psi and that is what they will use. That gives Vicky a turning pressure of 3300-1000 = 2300 psi and John will turn the dive when he hits 3200-1000 = 2200 psi.

D is for Depth. For example in this lake the maximum depth is 30 meter. Since we want to check out some of the overhangs we will stay at about 25 meter which will also probably be our average depth.

D for Direction. For example drop down from the dive boat and take a SSW heading and follow the reef.

D for Distance. For example during this cave dive we could probably reach 2200 feet on our penetration gas but at 1500 ft we will encounter a major restriction so we will turn the dive there.

D for Duration. Since we did about 30 minutes of bottom on our last dive and we will stay shallower on this one we will probably do about 40 minutes on this one.

D for Deco. Given that we should do an bottom time of about 40 minutes our deco should stay within the minimum deco limits so we will just do a minimum deco ascent.
Image
User avatar
Penopolypants
NWDC Moderator
NWDC Moderator
Posts: 3906
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by Penopolypants »

You forgot the 6th D - donuts!
Come to the nerd side, we have pi!
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by spatman »

Penopolypants wrote:You forgot the 6th D - donuts!
that's only for divers with the secret handshake and decoder ring!
Image
User avatar
Nwbrewer
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4623
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:59 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by Nwbrewer »

spatman wrote:
Penopolypants wrote:You forgot the 6th D - donuts!
that's only for divers with the secret handshake and decoder ring!
I always prefer deco cookies to donuts for post dive food.

I will be making sure that I actually ask for pressures from now on. We did cover what size tanks everyone had, and even what was in them, (%) but not pressure.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


"you do realize you're supposed to mix the :koolaid: with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? :smt064 " - Spatman
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by spatman »

Nwbrewer wrote:
spatman wrote:
Penopolypants wrote:You forgot the 6th D - donuts!
that's only for divers with the secret handshake and decoder ring!
I always prefer deco cookies to donuts for post dive food.
donuts are pre-dive, dude. duh.
Image
User avatar
LCF
I've Got Gills
Posts: 5697
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by LCF »

No, the tanks were not in our barn (we don't really have a "stable"), but I call it a stable full of tanks because, like a stable full of horses, you pull out the one you need at the time. And with 27 tanks at current count, it's kind of a stable!

And yes, Laura, I put the team at risk, and Jake, I'm sorry. Next time I come up to MMM, I'll make a better effort to be on time (because after this, nobody will be willing to wait for me!)
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
User avatar
Nwbrewer
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4623
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:59 am

Re: Complacency can hit us all, or why you shouldn't hurry

Post by Nwbrewer »

No worries, I've screwed up my share of stuff. At Kayak point when I was getting up off the truck Matt reached behind me and holds out my DS inflator. "Yes, I will be needing that, thanks."

Somebody in the other thread mentioned the heat being a factor in being rushed, and I totally agree with that. I've made a habit of getting EVERYTHING ready to go before I put on my even my undergarment on hot days. It's no good to be in a hurry putting your gear together because you're worried flooding the suit with sweat. Matt yesterday said he though you had to be more hardcore to dive the PNW in the summer than in the winter.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


"you do realize you're supposed to mix the :koolaid: with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? :smt064 " - Spatman
Post Reply