Northwest Dive Club

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:15 pm**

Interresting.. Scubapro announced Tec diving systems (again) at Dema..
http://www.scubapro.com/europe/german/s ... s/tek-line

they are marketing a weird bungied side-mount?? Dual bladdered wing as "DIR" ? how bizarre!
http://www.scubapro.com/europe/german/s ... -dir%C2%AE
X-TEK HS WING D.I.R.®

Also a full on DIR system..
http://www.scubapro.com/europe/german/s ... %29-system
X-TEK PURE TEK (D.I.R.®) SYSTEM

wonder when these are coming stateside and if it will be embraced by the DIR comunity.. they did not have much luck with their previous round of tec gear..

They make incerdible regs! I think if they bring Halcyon licensed gear to the US thats slightly cheaper than "real" halcyon together with their own regs, it might be a compelling set of gear.

thoughts?

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:50 pm**

The sidemount wing is a single bladder, just 2 butt dumps.

Other than the provocative name there's really nothing remarkable about these IMHO

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:41 pm**

Since when is "DIR" or "D.I.R." registered? If they registered it, they're going to have one hell of a battle trying to protect it as theirs. Funny stuff.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:52 am**

kdupreez wrote: Also a full on DIR system..
http://www.scubapro.com/europe/german/s ... %29-system
X-TEK PURE TEK (D.I.R.®) SYSTEM

wonder when these are coming stateside and if it will be embraced by the DIR comunity..

thoughts?

Hmmm ... I doubt it.

The long inflator hose and the knob on the pull dump would suggest they didn't put any thought into following DIR conventions. And the model on the linked website has a standard octopus (dangling) and no wrist gauges.

Looks like a marketing rip-off without any real understanding of the reasons why DIR specs their configuration the way they do ... it might sell, but I doubt it'll appeal to anyone with DIR training ... too many real DIR alternatives out there already ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:18 am**

I'd be really surprised if they could trademark DIR. GUE tried, and was unsuccessful.

I'm with Bob. This is a marketing ploy, and I doubt it will lure many people away from established and popular gear choices, unless the price is REALLY irresistible.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:28 am**

LCF wrote:I'd be really surprised if they could trademark DIR. GUE tried, and was unsuccessful.

I'm with Bob. This is a marketing ploy, and I doubt it will lure many people away from established and popular gear choices, unless the price is REALLY irresistible.

Halcyon had an application filed once, not sure if it was granted as I'm not a patent lawyer. Information is at: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f= ... 8nt7k7.3.6.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:19 am**

Halcyon abandoned the trademark in 2004.

Word Mark DIR
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Diving, snorkeling and scuba equipment, namely, tanks, fins, hoses, wetsuits, dry suits, regulators, buoyancy wings, back plates, lift devices, life rafts, weight release systems, weight systems, lift bags, rebreathers, alert markers, buoyancy compensators, lights, valves, personal flotation devices, wraps, pockets, dry suit inflation kits, bottle rigging kits, knives, clips, snaps, gear bags, hose units, bucklers, tank bands, manifold, snorkels, masks, flippers, weight belts and parts therefore, prerecorded videos in the field of scuba diving and diving techniques
(ABANDONED) IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Educational services in the field of scuba diving and diving techniques, developing educational materials for others in the field of scuba diving and diving techniques, educational demonstrations in the field of scuba diving and diving techniques, educational services, namely, conducting courses, classes, seminars, conferences, instructions, workshops and programs, in the field of scuba diving and diving techniques, educational services in the nature of scuba diving schools

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 78235834
Filing Date April 9, 2003
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) HALCYON MANUFACTURING, INC. CORPORATION FLORIDA 15 SOUTH MAIN STREET HIGH SPRINGS FLORIDA 32643
Attorney of Record DANIEL S. POLLEY, ESQ.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date December 3, 2004

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:00 pm**

looks like BTS picked up the D.I.R trademark in the EU. on Scubapro AG's web site it says "* D.I.R. ist eine geschütztes Markenzeichen der Bts Europa AG" or translated "DIR is a registered trademark of BTS Europe AG"

Bizarre that they are flaunting someone elses trademark just for marketing noise..

The long inflator hose should be fixed.. the pull dump knob is just for CE certification, the new halcyon wings all come with a little knob now (again, for CE)..

I heard somewhere the back plate is a Halcyon licensed plate?

IMHO, they should have done a lot more research and maybe even tried some other marketing strategies like picking a few DIR user groups for usability and feedback studies..

I know its not DIR related, but it really irked me that they have been promising trimix software for the galileo for past 2 years and have yet to deliver.. (after promising it in writing in the 2010 catalog as spring 2010)

Scubapro is seeing an emerging market with great potential in DIR and haphazardly jumped on the band wagon.. slightly dissapointing!

looking their "Sub Gear" spin-off of well, sub gear, its clear than the person in charge of Scuba lines at Johnson Outdoors is completely and utterly useless..

they should focus on what they are good at and ensure they remain "the best" and if they want to jump in new markets like DIR.. at least do the freegin research and go at it guns blazing with the right gear.

anyhow, my 2 psi rant for the day..

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:03 pm**

CaptnJack wrote:The sidemount wing is a single bladder, just 2 butt dumps.

Other than the provocative name there's really nothing remarkable about these IMHO

if you look closely, you can see the corrugated hose of a second inflation hose on the left.. its tucked behind the bladder.. im pretty sure its a dual bladder.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:13 pm**

kdupreez wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:The sidemount wing is a single bladder, just 2 butt dumps.

Other than the provocative name there's really nothing remarkable about these IMHO

if you look closely, you can see the corrugated hose of a second inflation hose on the left.. its tucked behind the bladder.. im pretty sure its a dual bladder.

Ahhh you're right. That just makes the bungies even better eh?

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:26 pm**

"DIR" has been a fairly stupid term for a long time now.

Bigger issue that occurs to me is that we're still labeling BP/W as "TEC" gear.

I wonder when someone like Scubapro will revolutionize the marketplace with the "worlds first purely recreational" wing -- one that looks exactly like a Halcyon or DSS 40# singles wing...

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:25 pm**

lamont wrote:"DIR" has been a fairly stupid term for a long time now.

Bigger issue that occurs to me is that we're still labeling BP/W as "TEC" gear.

I wonder when someone like Scubapro will revolutionize the marketplace with the "worlds first purely recreational" wing -- one that looks exactly like a Halcyon or DSS 40# singles wing...

It's "techreational."

(ducks flying objects)

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:16 pm**

Scubapro and Halcyon have been in bed together for quite some time.

I haven't been able to find it, but in the past they shared the patent on the Fastex buckle design on the integrated weighting systems. Scubapro has had Halcyon spring straps in the catalog for a few years now. Of course the Halcyon regs are Scubapro and now the Scubapro backplates are Halcyon plates with a few extra holes in them. Halcyon must have told them get their own wings/harnesses.

Scubapro has had issues when it comes to Tec forever. The West Coast rep has told me numerous times that it's hardly 1% of their market and that would be wasting their time to embrace it. It appears that they have decided to waste their time with the new BC's. That or that 1% market share is finally important to them!

The US is almost always the last to get anything new from Scubapro. The test marked Europe and Japan for years before they give us a product. Most of the products are designed in Italy and if you look at the new wings they definitely have a European look to them. They also have "Nitrox" regs on the EU site we don't.

As far as the D.I.R. - European Marketing? It's cool in the US so everyone in Europe must want it right?

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:23 pm**

Sounder wrote: It's "techreational."

(ducks flying objects)

techreational just makes me

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:29 pm**

Looks like the DIR branded wings have placeholder images. The X-TEK HS WING D.I.R.® states "Ohne Bungee-System" which means "Without Bungee System." Also, if you compare it to the bungied version and the dual bladder version, it's pretty clear that the images have been photoshopped. They just seem to have forgotten to remove an OPV and the bungees (and all of the second inflator). My money is on the final wing having the same shape but lacking these features.

As to their Halcyon origins, the plates very similar, although the Scubapro one has many more holes. They both have the characteristic bends, and the Scubapro doesn't seem to lack any holes that the Halcyon plate has. They're probably rebranded/modified/ghost-manufactured Halcyon plates.

As a side note to one particular local diver, indications point to the Scubapro plate being able to accept the cinch...

It seems that Scubapro is also marketing a storage pack that is identical or nearly identical to the Halcyon version.

As for the X-TEK PURE TEK (D.I.R.®) SYSTEM wing, it looks like it has the same shape as a Halcyon Evolve 40. The inflator looks like the SS one that Golem Gear is using, and they're also using the narrow tubing that seems to be fairly common (I know HOG has used it). The quality, though, can't really be determined without looking at it close up.

It could be a rebranded evolve with a different OPV and inflator, or it could just be the same shape without the high build quality, like IST's evolve rip-off. I would lean towards the former, but I wouldn't be shocked if they're manufacturing the wings themselves or having them made somewhere rather than having Halcyon sew them all by hand. There does seem to be some president for changes when something crosses from SP to H. The Halcyon first stage H-75P looks more like a Mk20 than a Mk25 (the Halcyon version lacks the heat transfer fins.) So who knows? Interesting find though Koos.

Halcyon, Scubapro and IST wings

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:31 pm**

The wings and plates were at DEMA. The wings didn't appear at all to be Halcyon but the plate is definitely rebranded Halcyon as are the accessories and there was a bungied wing at DEMA.

Honestly, I didn't spend a ton of time looking at them because they didn't interest me that much other than thinking that like all the late entries to Tec they couldn't learn from what everyone else was doing right and had done wrong. They had to start from scratch like they were going to create something revolutionary. It's a BP&W for pete's sake get on board with the shapes and sizes that have become standard and move on.

The Halcyon regs are 100% Scubapro with H logos and a different look parts kits are interchangeable.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:34 pm**

Just because you make something and say that it's for the DIR market doesn't mean that it's necessarily blessed by the DIR-gods.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:41 pm**

Tangfish wrote:Just because you make something and say that it's for the DIR market doesn't mean that it's necessarily blessed by the DIR-gods.

That's right! I say blech

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:43 pm**

Dmitchell wrote:The wings and plates were at DEMA. The wings didn't appear at all to be Halcyon but the plate is definitely rebranded Halcyon as are the accessories and there was a bungied wing at DEMA.

Honestly, I didn't spend a ton of time looking at them because they didn't interest me that much other than thinking that like all the late entries to Tec they couldn't learn from what everyone else was doing right and had done wrong. They had to start from scratch like they were going to create something revolutionary. It's a BP&W for pete's sake get on board with the shapes and sizes that have become standard and move on.

The Halcyon regs are 100% Scubapro with H logos and a different look parts kits are interchangeable.

Whoa whoa whoa - screw the new BC system stuff and whether it's DIR or NOT DIR... Dave was at DEMA?! DAVE, you were at DEMA and didn't say so?!?! DOOD!!!

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:59 am**

DIR withstanding, I just noticed that all the SP wings have single-tank cam strap holes for goin all single tanking without an STA..

Even the Side Mount wings have cam strap through holes for some awesome single-tanking-taco-surprise dives!!

BUT, there are holes for just ONE cam strap and it doesnt even align with the cam strap holes in the Steel Back plates.. WTF?

OMG - I realy realy hope these are all photoshopped place holder images.. Scubapro will be making complete fools out of themselves otherwise..

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:09 am**

If it didn't have "D.I.R." in the name and release on the German website would you have even noticed or cared? Seriously

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:15 am**

Sounder wrote: Whoa whoa whoa - screw the new BC system stuff and whether it's DIR or NOT DIR... Dave was at DEMA?! DAVE, you were at DEMA and didn't say so?!?! DOOD!!!

Sorry Man, I kept DEMA pretty low key, was just there to play and help out the guys who bought my store. I never did see/find the Liquivision booth.

And Richard - I think you are right on that...

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:17 am**

Actually the single cam strap slots on the wing lines up with the Hollis plate single cam strap slots

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:59 pm**

Grateful Diver wrote:
kdupreez wrote: Also a full on DIR system..
http://www.scubapro.com/europe/german/s ... %29-system
X-TEK PURE TEK (D.I.R.®) SYSTEM

wonder when these are coming stateside and if it will be embraced by the DIR comunity..

thoughts?
Hmmm ... I doubt it.

The long inflator hose and the knob on the pull dump would suggest they didn't put any thought into following DIR conventions. And the model on the linked website has a standard octopus (dangling) and no wrist gauges.

Looks like a marketing rip-off without any real understanding of the reasons why DIR specs their configuration the way they do ... it might sell, but I doubt it'll appeal to anyone with DIR training ... too many real DIR alternatives out there already ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Check out the knob on the pull dump... Halcyon has been putting them on for over a year now.

the SP version is very similar, the biggest differences I note is the 'shape' of the wing... big squared off corners(read that as 'another area to trap air').. and of course that monsterously long inflator you mention Bob.... that may be so that your 3rd buddy...waaaayyyyy on the other side of the team can orally inflate for you??????

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:03 pm**

kdupreez wrote: ..the pull dump knob is just for CE certification, the new halcyon wings all come with a little knob now (again, for CE)..

Northwest Dive Club

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