Northwest Dive Club

On another thread, the following statement was made:

I would highly recommend him or one of the other club instructors over a shop class.

This statement bothered (and bothers) me and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts.

I'm an independent instructor who is "affiliated" with one LDS and "affiliated" with an instructor group which is NOT affiliated with an LDS. I am also a member of two dive clubs.

When I teach an Open Water Class, the students just get me as their instructor. How they got to me is, I believe, irrelevant as to what they are going to learn or how I am going to teach them. It just doesn't matter if the class is held at the Dive Shop or in my Basement or at the student's home. What they get is the same.

I happen to like working with an LDS for several reasons, including more staff to help out (and to bounce ideas off of), easier access to a pool and I don't have to provide students with gear. I do hear stories about how shops won't give the instructors the time to teach the class properly -- but that has not been an issue for me. If that were to become an issue, I hope (and believe) I'd have the integrity to "Just Say No" and refuse to teach under conditions I felt weren't proper or sufficient.

Of the instructors I know, whether working for an LDS or by themselves, the important thing is that THEY decide what and how to teach.

So, should you take your Open Water Class through an LDS or from an Independent? That really depends on the instructor. What do you think?

I don't know the context of the quote but...
I suspect its more like "chose your instructor" vs. walk into some shop and say "I wanna learn how to dive where do I start?" There are too many loss leading $99 dollar specials out there who really don't do instructor's or student's justice. In that context I have a list of open water instructors I recommend to people, some of them I really don't know their current affiliations shop or agency-wise.

CaptJack -- the quote came from a thread where a new diver wanted to know about what gear to get. NWGrateful Diver had a very thoughtful and helpful response (as is expected from Bob) and a frequent poster then made the statement I quoted.

I do agree, "It is the instructor" that is the key, not how the student gets referred to the instructor.

In most shops I've been associated with, you not only don't get to choose your instructor ... or interview your instructor ... you often don't even know who your instructor will be until the class starts.

Sadly, the typical person who's wanting to learn how to dive usually doesn't know what to ask, or why it matters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Looking back at my short 11 years and the instructors I've had and watched I don't think it matters at the beginning diver level. The beginning diver doesn't know what needs to be learned, or the best teaching methods that will help the beginner learn them. Some independent instructors are outstanding. Others are just hard to get along with or can't fit into a situation where there is even an implied level of supervision. Shop instructors are subject to their own set of problems. However, instructors in both relationships can be and often are, if not outstanding, certainly competent to help the student learn.

On the other hand once a person gets some dives under their belt and has developed some specific goals it is important the student and the instructor have a conversation to make sure they are both on the same page. Student instructor match is more important that whether the instructor is affiliated with a shop. In this regard personalities are very important. My bias, and that is just what it is, is that most of the time other things being equal a shop affiliated instructor is to be preferred over an independent instructor. My bias comes from seeing something happen when dealing with a solo instructor where the instructor was not able, or willing, to complete the course of instruction. Since the contract was with the shop the shop was able to provide another instructor and not leave the student in the lurch.

Grateful Diver wrote:In most shops I've been associated with, you not only don't get to choose your instructor ... or interview your instructor ... you often don't even know who your instructor will be until the class starts.

I guess this is why most of us recommend actual persons vs. generic "shop instructors"

I posted in the "Other" thread and I guess I should have posted it here.. but I wont repeat it here, my 2psi is over in the other thread..

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 89#p171494

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I hadn't read the other thread. Thanks for posting the link. The post is a well stated position on a recurring subject that, I suspect will continue to be discussed.

Learning is a life long endeavour. I do my best to learn from everyone, not just instructors, and try to encourage others to do the same. A person can learn from even those people who have pre-judged you and as a result treat you badly and gossip about you.

Grateful Diver wrote:In most shops I've been associated with, you not only don't get to choose your instructor ... or interview your instructor ... you often don't even know who your instructor will be until the class starts.

Sadly, the typical person who's wanting to learn how to dive usually doesn't know what to ask, or why it matters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I totally agree with Bob. If i take my example, at this point where i have never tried scuba diving, i don't even know if scuba is for me and i will do it for ever. So in that scenario my first learning experience is just a trial for myself and not an actual learning learning thingie. I would say once i do the certification and start doing some basic diving with the LDS, i will know if i want good instruction down the line.

Btw, i started the "Other" thread and it has tonnes of good info.

This summer i walked into a shop and said I wanna learn to dive, where do I start?


Whether that worked out... well, I sure think it did. *grin*

Grateful Diver wrote:In most shops I've been associated with, you not only don't get to choose your instructor ... or interview your instructor ... you often don't even know who your instructor will be until the class starts.

Sadly, the typical person who's wanting to learn how to dive usually doesn't know what to ask, or why it matters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Like me, for example. If I had to do it all over again, I would choose a different path, but that 129.99$ promotion opened up a huge world to me. Is that good or bad? I honestly don't have an answer that fits for that question. My impression is that the vast majority of people I was in my OW class with were punching out a cert so they could go somewhere tropical and dive. From my own experience, talking to people I meet here in Seattle, there are a whole bunch of people who dive once a year or so, when they go to Hawaii or whatever. And that's fine by me- they seem to enjoy it.

That class didn't really prepare me- or anyone else- to dive locally. I mean, the basics were all there, but it's much, much, harder to dive in Puget Sound than it is to dive in, say, Cozumel. I know that a better, more expensive class from a private instructor would have given me better tools to start with, but what any new diver really needs is more experienced buddies to help them along.