AOW Certification

[scubnewb]

Anyone out there avaiable to help me out with a AOW certification, I called my local shop and they didnt have anything coming up because of the cold weather but I would like to get this done to open up my depth and the fact that I will be Diving at night alot due to my schedule. I figure if I am going out and already doing dives that would count towards my 5 dives i should be getting credit for them

[Nwbrewer]

I called my local shop and they didnt have anything coming up because of the cold weather

Wow. They must not need business much if that's their reasoning. No classes in the winter huh?

Make sure and shop around for the class. Not all AOW classes are created equal. Some will teach you a lot about how to dive, some will result in going on 5 guided dives and being handed a C-card. Make sure you're getting something for your money.

[Paulicarp]

I would like to get this done to open up my depth and the fact that I will be Diving at night alot due to my schedule. I figure if I am going out and already doing dives that would count towards my 5 dives i should be getting credit

I've never taken an AOW class, but from what I understand there's not a lot of basic skill development in *many* AOW classes. One other option to consider would be a class like Essentials, where you focus on Buoyancy, Trim and Propulsion techniques. Spending the time on these basic building block skills has done more for some divers I know than what they got out of an AOW class where they just dove deeper with the same lack of basic skills they had after OW. YMMV, just something to consider.

[scubnewb]

No I think it was more along the lines of nobody has been coming in asking for that cert as much due to the weather lol...

[2loud4u]

+1 for the essentials class, the only problem to skipping the AOW is if/when you go on a dive trip. When I was in Florida las year, they wanted to see the AOW card for some of the deeper dives. We couldnt go because Julie didnt have hers. So our plans were cancelled. But I learned so much more in my Essentials class than I did in AOW. The AOW I guess also depends on your instructor, but mine was just a few guided dives with me leading on the nav dive.

Brendan

[scubnewb]

What does YMMV mean? And I am working towards a Dive Instructor Certification (or at least thats the plan) at minimum so this is just one of the steps I need to take in that direction as well. But I am always working on my essentials... After this I will be after the rescue diver cert as well. I am kind of a back to back guy. Now that I got my own gear and the majority of all the large purchases are out of the way. I just want to spend my money working in that direction overall to be the best diver I can be and be able to help and teach others for those who will be willing to allow me to LOL

I would like to get this done to open up my depth and the fact that I will be Diving at night alot due to my schedule. I figure if I am going out and already doing dives that would count towards my 5 dives i should be getting credit

I've never taken an AOW class, but from what I understand there's not a lot of basic skill development in *many* AOW classes. One other option to consider would be a class like Essentials, where you focus on Buoyancy, Trim and Propulsion techniques. Spending the time on these basic building block skills has done more for some divers I know than what they got out of an AOW class where they just dove deeper with the same lack of basic skills they had after OW. YMMV, just something to consider.

[boydski]

What does YMMV mean?

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

[CaptnJack]

YMMV = Your milage may vary

"Essentials" is a course from the UTD agency. Taught locally by Bdub or Edge. Here's their website page about it. http://www.frogkickdiving.com/Essentials.php

I would put that "instructor" card waaaaay in the back of your mind.

[Paulicarp]

YMMV- Your mileage may vary- in other words, you can get an AOW class that is good or not.

Collecting certs is not the same as being the best diver you can be. If your main goal is to be a certified instructor, well, you have to collect the right certs to get there. If your goal is to be the best diver you can be, that isn't necessarily related to the certs you collect. If being the best diver you can be AND being an instructor is where you're headed, it would be worthwhile to go thru the list of instructors on the Diver Education forum and talk to as many of them as you can. You'll get a good picture from them what the difference is between being a good diver and being a certified instructor. I know one diver that was a NAUI certified instructor with 300 dives, and she refused to teach classes or even tell people she was an instructor because she knew she wasn't a very good diver yet. What does that tell you?

[scubnewb]

@captnjack no offense but putting a goal way in the back of your mind is not how one makes accomplishments in my book, the farther back you put things the farther away they can become to obtain. I was raised if you have a goal pursue it fully to your best capablities and always believe in yourself. Theres nothing in life that I havent been able to obtain or accomplish that I have ever set out to do, and I have done some pretty outstanding and unbelievable things in my life compared to the average joe (TOOT TOOT)... For every course in ones life there is a starting point and a finishing point and after that its all about refining... I began my starting point back in May when I jumped in a pool... My finishing point is far out in the horizon but I can see it...

As far as essentials goes I have somewhat of a natrural ability to to grab on to concepts and techniques pretty quick and master them. Not to say that I dont have a very long road ahead of me but I seem to be ahead of the curve from what I have heard from people I have dove with. But I do plan on taking a essentials class as well soon just to sharpen my skills and get that extra edge on the sport and other divers. Checking out the website soon as I finish this post.

@paulicarp thank you very much for the advice, I fully understand its not about collecting certs but to get to where I want to go one must have the proper paper work. I realized that when I graduated with a $200K degree from the Univeristy of Washington (Toot Toot) and found that nothing I learned in class helped me in my career, I just needed a entrance ticket to get in the door LOL... And you are very correct in saying they are not the same regarding collecting certs and being the best diver you can. I am not really a collector and to me it makes no sense to go out and just collect certs if you are not really taking the time to learn the educational and practical applications of whats behind the certification. I realized that as the instructor I got my OW from was particular about us understanding everything that we were being taught and how knowing and not knowing the information can be the difference between life and death. As far as your friend goes, well it tells me there are teachers and there are students and to become a teacher you must be one of the best students in the class. Maybe she just wansnt the best student or maybe she just didnt want the responsiblitly of teaching people due to the level of responsibility regarding having other peoples lives in her hands. Eitherway she made a choice that was best for her, we are all very different people and somethings are for some and other things are for others... It really just depends on the person. I myself believe there is no difference between me and the guy I give a dollar to everyday on the freeway offramp other then I apply myself fully and invest myself into the things I am involved with fully, while he just chooses not to... Hope that gives you a good idea of where I am going and my mind state regarding diving.

Now who wants to help me accomplish this next goal?

YMMV- Your mileage may vary- in other words, you can get an AOW class that is good or not.

Collecting certs is not the same as being the best diver you can be. If your main goal is to be a certified instructor, well, you have to collect the right certs to get there. If your goal is to be the best diver you can be, that isn't necessarily related to the certs you collect. If being the best diver you can be AND being an instructor is where you're headed, it would be worthwhile to go thru the list of instructors on the Diver Education forum and talk to as many of them as you can. You'll get a good picture from them what the difference is between being a good diver and being a certified instructor. I know one diver that was a NAUI certified instructor with 300 dives, and she refused to teach classes or even tell people she was an instructor because she knew she wasn't a very good diver yet. What does that tell you?

[Paulicarp]

Hope that gives you a good idea of where I am going and my mind state regarding diving.

Yep, I do have a pretty good idea where you're going and what your state of mind is.

Now who wants to help me accomplish this next goal?

Next...

[Jeremy]

I know one diver that was a NAUI certified instructor with 300 dives, and she refused to teach classes or even tell people she was an instructor because she knew she wasn't a very good diver yet. What does that tell you?

That she should have gone with PADI?

[scubnewb]

Lol @ Next.... LOL I do tend to ramble both verbally and by text haha... always have. @myself lol...

Hope that gives you a good idea of where I am going and my mind state regarding diving.

Yep, I do have a pretty good idea where you're going and what your state of mind is.

Now who wants to help me accomplish this next goal?

Next...

[LCF]

ScubaNewb, there are a number of independent instructors in the area who teach very good AOW classes and will do them as privates if necessary. NWDiveClub's own Grateful Diver is one of them, and teaches a superb class. My husband, Peter Guy, is another, although he would prefer to have at least two students. It's not always necessary to find your own classmates, though, because sometimes there are a number of people "circling" and trying to decide when and where to do a class.

I agree with you that, if you are going to do dives at the AOW level (and I assume you are talking mostly about depth) that having the education to go with the dives is a good idea. Let me know if I can help you in any way to help get this set up.

[Nwbrewer]

I know one diver that was a NAUI certified instructor with 300 dives, and she refused to teach classes or even tell people she was an instructor because she knew she wasn't a very good diver yet. What does that tell you?

That she should have gone with PADI?

Bad Troll, back under the bridge with you!

Newb, I think what Richard and Paul are trying to tell you is that while taking all of the prerequites classes may open the door to being an instructor, to provide quality education to your students you need both a good breadth and depth of knowledge. In order to get that, you have to dive. A lot. In many different conditions, with lots of different types of divers. Going from one class to the next with the same set of instructors is not (usually) the best way to become a good instructor.

Please come on out to an MMM dive soon. We can chat a bit about what your goals are and maybe illustrate some differences in the different types of diving.

As far as an AOW class, are you looking for a PADI or a NAUI class?

[scubnewb]

@NWbrewer I fully understand everything you and others are saying, I dont think I have presented any remarks that would say I dont get that. Certs are nothing more then credentials, you could give them to a blind no legged dog without a tounge but just because he has them doesnt mean anyone will dive with him lol... If there is one thing I know is that reputaion and the building upon that reputaion is the key to ones success. And the reason I am looking for someone new is to get new experiences as I am a believe that to really become a great student and better teacher you must learn from many sources and schools of thought and deveolpe your own by taking the best from each teacher. Otherwise I would just go with the same person time after time... Although I do prefer PADI certs... And yes I do plan on making it out Monday this week actually as my cold I have been griping about its pretty much GONE!!! ****doing backflips****

[WylerBear]

I second the recommendation of Bob Bailey (Grateful Diver). You won't get better quality instruction. He is a NAUI instructor I believe. If you are looking for PADI, I believe Peter Guy is a PADI Instructor. And so is Zen Diver who may or may not have time to give you a private class right now. I know Zen Diver is an excellent instructor and have heard nothing but good things about Peter.
Good luck in obtaining your goal.

[CaptnJack]

Not sure where the can of worms smilie is but...
Why do you want to be a scuba instructor?

[Joshua Smith]

Lighten up, everyone. Poor guy just wants to get an AOW card. Jeeze.

[scubnewb]

Retirement plans... well sort of retirment, me and my brother want to retire in either Costa Rica or our native home of Puerto Rico (I am half rican and he is full rican) and open a Dive, Fishing, & Sailing Charter House attached to a cantina... Im 34 now and we are looking to both retire at 40/45... 50 at the latest... Diving is the last part of the puzzle, he has been diving for a number of years and is a instructor in Miami, I on the other hand have all the Sailing and Boating experience. He is now down there learning to sail while I am up here working on diving lol... He also is a marketing and business genius and I on the other hand have worked in the Nightclub and Music/Entertainment Industry for a number of years... So in the end its our dream to retire doing the things we love the most... but still making a profit doing so, which is one other thing we love to do lol...

Not sure where the can of worms smilie is but...
Why do you want to be a scuba instructor?

[scubnewb]

thanks bro... I was wondering if it was just me or was I really being put threw the ringer by just looking for someone to help me out getting my next cert lol...

Lighten up, everyone. Poor guy just wants to get an AOW card. Jeeze.

[LCF]

You know, when I was a new diver, I was quite sure I was going to go on to DM and Instructor in fairly short order. After all, I saw all kinds of people around me doing it. The gal who checked my tank pressures (a DM candidate) had been diving for four months! This was the context I lived in.

Then I met Bob, and everything changed. But it wasn't him scolding me or giving me a hard time that changed it. It was simply watching someone who was really experienced and really good in the water, and making my own comparisons and decisions.

We all have to find our own path in this sport. Most of us love it, which is why we are here. That enthusiasm, in some people (like me) immediately gets translated into a desire to share it with others. There is nothing reprehensible about that, but most people really ought to get more experience and more training than they do, before they begin participating in teaching activities. But the best way to learn that is to decide it for yourself.

[Dashrynn]

I took an aow class but to be honest, I wasn't really taught anything I could have learned from a mentor. That or good ol common sense. And I would put instructor on the backburner til you are a great enough diver to lead someone on the best path. I have met quite a few "instructors" and dive masters whos trim were so badly off and their situational awareness so horrible that I considered becoming an instructor. Figured hey, if they can do it, I can too. I have also pointed people away from instructors and dive shops because how they handled themselves underwater.

If you really want to become great, build up bottom time and dive with the well known humble divers. People like grateful diver for one. It takes years to build up the proper experience and knowledge to become a proper instructor. And remember, the scuba community is small in Washington, do it right or you will be known for being a bad instructor.

[Grateful Diver]

At the AOW level, agency doesn't matter ... what matters is deciding what your reasons are for taking the class, and choosing an instructor who's compatible with those reasons.

What do you hope to get out of the class?

- A greater understanding of diving fundamentals?
- Improved comfort and skills?
- Access to a wider range of dive sites?
- An increased pool of dive buddies?

These are all good reasons to take the class.

How much effort are you willing to put into it? Generally speaking, the more you want from a class, the more you're going to have to be willing to put into it?

Is cost a major factor? Some classes are more expensive than others. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for.

Some instructors will encourage you to sign up for AOW as soon as possible after OW. The idea here is that getting you more supervised dive time as quickly as possible helps reduce the potential for bad habits, and helps you get comfortable in the water more quickly. Unfortunately, a lot of these classes ... because they're marketed primarily as "experience" dives ... end up not really focusing on skills so much as simply providing you exposure to new experiences.

Other instructors will encourage you to get out and dive ... and get comfortable with your OW skills ... before signing up for AOW. The idea here is that AOW will introduce you to new skills, and will challenge you to push your limits. Having a more solid foundation upon which to build helps you get the most from what the class is offering. My AOW class falls into this category.

There are significant differences in philosophy at this level between agencies. Without getting into which is better ... because, frankly, they all offer advantages and disadvantages ... I'll simply say that PADI offers a more uniform, structured approach, NAUI offers more freedom to tailor the class to the student's needs, SSI offers an approach that emphasizes more in-water time, and various other agencies offer variations on these three basic themes. Once again, it boils down more to choosing an instructor who is in-tune with what you want out of the class than it does about agency or what a particular dive shop is offering.

Many instructors in the Puget Sound area offer curriculum that goes beyond the standard agency fare ... at this level they should, because all of the agencies really target the largest audience, which is the tropical diver. Diving in Puget Sound provides challenges that one doesn't get in the tropics, and requires skills that aren't typically covered in the standard agency curriculum. For this reason, I and several other instructors on this board offer courses that are more tailored to the Puget Sound environment.

My Advanced class doesn't offer "electives" ... there are six dives, and they each emphasize specific skills and objectives. Before we go diving, we'll spend about a dozen hours going over a curriculum that I co-wrote with another local instructor ... Bdub here on NWDC ... back when we were both NAUI divemasters and instructors. Both academics and dives will emphasize buddy skills, gas management, buoyancy and trim, complex navigation, low-visibility diving, and search & recovery techniques. You'll learn to shoot a DSMB, handle reels and lift bags, and a navigation technique that I call "mental mapping" ... useful for finding your way back on those murky Puget Sound days when you can't see very far.

Other instructors in here also offer quality programs ... many similar to what I offer, with their own emphasis and variations. So don't limit yourself to what one shop, or one instructor, can offer. Shop around. Decide first why you want the class, and then interview the prospective instructor. As as many questions about the class as you can think of ... it'll help you get a better sense of whether or not the instructor is a good match for what you hope to take away from the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Grateful Diver]

Wow ... this thread's really taken off! Four new messages while I was typing that last one.

Hey scubnewb ... drop me a PM if you want to talk offline. I'm not sure I want to teach another class just now, but I can for sure answer a lot of your questions and help you find someone who is good ... most of the instructors around here know each other and we all know who the better ones are. Lots of them to choose from that are active right here on NWDC.

I'll be happy to talk to ya ... either in person, phone, or email. For that matter, I'd be happy to go on a dive with ya, and give you some advice based on where I think you're at. There's a lot of different options. I don't teach for a living ... I teach because I love teaching ... and like you, I got into teaching with an eye toward retirement (I'm a lot closer to it than you are).

Drop me a PM ... I'll send ya my email and cell phone number.

Let's talk ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)