3 divers die off Key Largo Florida
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straitscuba
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3 divers die off Key Largo Florida
Just watching CNN, 3 divers died on the Spiegel Grove from the dive boat Scuba-Do at about noon est today. No names were released as of noon pst today pending notification of next of kin. Apparently all were AOW certified and attempting a penetration dive. County Sherrifs Dive Rescue said that they were so far inside the wreck that recovery would be almost impossible but another attempt is scheduled for tommorow. I have alot of instructor and DM friends down there so I am watching closely hoping it isn't any of them. If anyone hears names let me know.
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Grateful Diver
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"So far inside the wreck" probably means the single tank sheriffs team can't access the bodies with their gear. They are rarely overhead trained. The bottom here is 130-140ft. That's freakin' deep with any size single and (probably) air in that and their ponys (the typical PSD rig).
Rumor has it they weren't running line. So AOW may not be a misrepresentation. Damned shame people keep making the same fatal mistakes.
Rumor has it they weren't running line. So AOW may not be a misrepresentation. Damned shame people keep making the same fatal mistakes.
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Grateful Diver
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KEY LARGO -- Three divers died on Friday while diving on the Spiegel Grove wreck, the Monroe County Sheriff's office said.
In an e-mailed statement, Becky Herrin, spokeswoman for MSO, said the three men were part of a four-man team that was diving on the popular wreck from the commercial dive boat Scuba-do. All were reportedly advanced certified divers and planned a penetration dive into the sunken wreck. That's when something apparently went wrong.
LocalLinks
Here's what Herrin said happened next:
One of the divers was stationed at the entrance and the other three went inside. The release did not say how deep the divers were.
The diver left outside the wreck began to run out of air, according to detectives. He surfaced safely.
Two divers from another boat went down to look for the others. They surfaced with one diver who was in distress. That diver was taken on board a Coast Guard vessel where CPR was performed. Paramedics met the boat at shore and transported the victim to Mariner's Hospital where he was pronounced dead.
The two other divers did not surface and initial searches of the wreck failed to locate them.
Just after 2 p.m., a dive team from Key Largo Fire Rescue that was searching the wreck located their bodies inside. According to detectives, the bodies are so deep inside, it will be difficult to recover them. More divers from that team will be deployed to the wreck on Saturday and will make another attempt at recovery.
Names of the divers were not released pending notification of next of kin.
The USS Spiegel Grove was a Navy Landing Ship Dock that was sunk to create an artificial reef off Key Largo in 2002. The vessel is 510 feet in length and 84 feet wide. When it was sunk it went down on its side. In 2005, underwater currents caused by Hurricane Dennis shifted the ship upright into its present underwater berth. The highest point of the ship now sits 40 to 60 feet below the surface.
In an e-mailed statement, Becky Herrin, spokeswoman for MSO, said the three men were part of a four-man team that was diving on the popular wreck from the commercial dive boat Scuba-do. All were reportedly advanced certified divers and planned a penetration dive into the sunken wreck. That's when something apparently went wrong.
LocalLinks
Here's what Herrin said happened next:
One of the divers was stationed at the entrance and the other three went inside. The release did not say how deep the divers were.
The diver left outside the wreck began to run out of air, according to detectives. He surfaced safely.
Two divers from another boat went down to look for the others. They surfaced with one diver who was in distress. That diver was taken on board a Coast Guard vessel where CPR was performed. Paramedics met the boat at shore and transported the victim to Mariner's Hospital where he was pronounced dead.
The two other divers did not surface and initial searches of the wreck failed to locate them.
Just after 2 p.m., a dive team from Key Largo Fire Rescue that was searching the wreck located their bodies inside. According to detectives, the bodies are so deep inside, it will be difficult to recover them. More divers from that team will be deployed to the wreck on Saturday and will make another attempt at recovery.
Names of the divers were not released pending notification of next of kin.
The USS Spiegel Grove was a Navy Landing Ship Dock that was sunk to create an artificial reef off Key Largo in 2002. The vessel is 510 feet in length and 84 feet wide. When it was sunk it went down on its side. In 2005, underwater currents caused by Hurricane Dennis shifted the ship upright into its present underwater berth. The highest point of the ship now sits 40 to 60 feet below the surface.
Chin high, puffed chest, we step right to it
The choice is there ain't no choice but to pursue it
"Diving the gas is the easy part, not much to it, plenty of retards are using it safely. " jamieZ
The choice is there ain't no choice but to pursue it
"Diving the gas is the easy part, not much to it, plenty of retards are using it safely. " jamieZ
Well as some one that is training for Search and Rescue and recovery with our local Sheriffs office Dive team
I can tell you that the first thing the Dive team is going to look at is the Risk VS benafits Factor I doubt there are more then Half adozen teams that are geared and trainded to undertake this Mission to recover the lost divers the risk is simply to grate.
you would not belive how much goes in to recovery in a case like this in a much shllower dive you could magnafi that ten fold just because of the depth alone
im not saying it could not be done just that most teams would not risk loseing a team member in a recovery of this nature .
there is a huge amount of gear needed to safely make a rovery in a wreck add that to the depth and you are justaskng for something to not only go wrong but to horribly wrong
Sparky
I can tell you that the first thing the Dive team is going to look at is the Risk VS benafits Factor I doubt there are more then Half adozen teams that are geared and trainded to undertake this Mission to recover the lost divers the risk is simply to grate.
you would not belive how much goes in to recovery in a case like this in a much shllower dive you could magnafi that ten fold just because of the depth alone
im not saying it could not be done just that most teams would not risk loseing a team member in a recovery of this nature .
there is a huge amount of gear needed to safely make a rovery in a wreck add that to the depth and you are justaskng for something to not only go wrong but to horribly wrong
Sparky
A Smart Man
Learns from his mistakes
A Wise Man
Learns from the mistakes of those that have gone before him
Learns from his mistakes
A Wise Man
Learns from the mistakes of those that have gone before him
the only two pieces of information on the discussions so far that shed any light at all are possibly contradictory:
"single 80' back gas with another staged 80 outside the wreck. There was a reel but the line was busted.
From two ex students of mine (tech 1) who came across the first body and did the recovery on it (that diver was almost out of the wreck)" -- http://thedecostop.com/forums/showpost. ... stcount=23
"That would be unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. I know who two of the guys are. They were experienced NJ Wreck Divers. Things can go wrong, but I rather doubt they would attempt such a dive with an AL80." -- http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=88
"single 80' back gas with another staged 80 outside the wreck. There was a reel but the line was busted.
From two ex students of mine (tech 1) who came across the first body and did the recovery on it (that diver was almost out of the wreck)" -- http://thedecostop.com/forums/showpost. ... stcount=23
"That would be unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. I know who two of the guys are. They were experienced NJ Wreck Divers. Things can go wrong, but I rather doubt they would attempt such a dive with an AL80." -- http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=88
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John Rawlings
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Here's an article from the "Sun-Sentinal" down in Florida. It answers a few questions, but over the years I have found that the newspapers rarely describe everything correctly....so who knows?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... -headlines
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... -headlines
“Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.”
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com
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http://johnrawlings.smugmug.com/
I wish there was a good source to clear up the confusion. It is just another sad story.
Just as an aside, do "trained advanced wreck penatrators" usually have a guy that waits outside the entrance? That seems kind of strange to me, like something a novice group would do. Also, in one article they said they could have used strobes to mark the path, but if you get lots of silt kicked up you still wouldn't be able to see a strobe. That is why they call it zero vis.
Just as an aside, do "trained advanced wreck penatrators" usually have a guy that waits outside the entrance? That seems kind of strange to me, like something a novice group would do. Also, in one article they said they could have used strobes to mark the path, but if you get lots of silt kicked up you still wouldn't be able to see a strobe. That is why they call it zero vis.
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES..... THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING ... BUT THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/cera17
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Grateful Diver
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The surviving diver didn't wait outside ... that was another assumption the news media made. The guy who survived had also penetrated the wreck. According to his own account, when the silt-out happened, he wanted to go one way and everyone else wanted to go another. Turns out he was right ... and so he survived.Cera wrote:I wish there was a good source to clear up the confusion. It is just another sad story.
Just as an aside, do "trained advanced wreck penatrators" usually have a guy that waits outside the entrance? That seems kind of strange to me, like something a novice group would do. Also, in one article they said they could have used strobes to mark the path, but if you get lots of silt kicked up you still wouldn't be able to see a strobe. That is why they call it zero vis.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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John Rawlings
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Here's some interesting information that was posted on Rebreather World. It was posted by a diver ( a test pilot in New Jersey) that knew all 4 of the divers involved and interviewed the lone survivor. I'm not saying it's a definitive explanation, but so far it's the clearest, most succinct explanation of what happened that I have seen. Remember, it was written for a "rebreather audience" so the information has that influence attached to it. I did not change one word of his post:
"(1): Not rebreather divers.
(2): On single tanks.
(3): No reels.
(4): Silted it out.
(5): One buddy pair got out, the other did not.
(6): Diver "1" of the pair that got out went back in to "assist" while Diver "2" of that pair waited at the exit.
(7): Diver "2" stayed there until he was out of air, surfaced and was picked up by a boat.
(8): One diver from Buddy Pair "B" was found (dead) near the exit.
(9): The other diver from Buddy Pair (B) and Diver "1" from the other buddy pair were found (dead) deep inside.
(10): Looks like Diver "1" from the first pair went back in when he realized the other team was past due, found the other pair, got one of them back to the exit and then went back in for the other one.
(11): No real lesson to be learned other than that if you do penetration work without sufficient air you'll die.
(12): They were local divers and were at the shop Weds night last week to buy air.
(13): Color me pissed.... I hate to lose people we know. It was a needless accident. Just bad stuff all around. More errors made than I have fingers.
All data taken from interview with survivor.
If they had been on RB's they would all have a story to tell. Single tanks? Not for this work. "
Food for thought.....
- John
"(1): Not rebreather divers.
(2): On single tanks.
(3): No reels.
(4): Silted it out.
(5): One buddy pair got out, the other did not.
(6): Diver "1" of the pair that got out went back in to "assist" while Diver "2" of that pair waited at the exit.
(7): Diver "2" stayed there until he was out of air, surfaced and was picked up by a boat.
(8): One diver from Buddy Pair "B" was found (dead) near the exit.
(9): The other diver from Buddy Pair (B) and Diver "1" from the other buddy pair were found (dead) deep inside.
(10): Looks like Diver "1" from the first pair went back in when he realized the other team was past due, found the other pair, got one of them back to the exit and then went back in for the other one.
(11): No real lesson to be learned other than that if you do penetration work without sufficient air you'll die.
(12): They were local divers and were at the shop Weds night last week to buy air.
(13): Color me pissed.... I hate to lose people we know. It was a needless accident. Just bad stuff all around. More errors made than I have fingers.
All data taken from interview with survivor.
If they had been on RB's they would all have a story to tell. Single tanks? Not for this work. "
Food for thought.....
- John
“Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.”
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com
http://johnrawlings.smugmug.com/
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thelawgoddess
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scary and sad. what a horrible way to die. i can't imaging penetrating a wreck without tons of gas and a lifeline. just the thought of poking my head into a wreck freaks me out ...
"Life without passion is life without depth."~J.Hollis
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We did two penetrations on the saskatchewan and cape breton in january.
We had double-130s full of 30/30 and ran a reel. That means we had 3.5x as much gas as they did. We also only planned on 10 mins into the wreck and actually turned at around 8-9 mins into it. It only took us 6 mins to get out. The gas plan was closer to sixths (500 psi max used going in) and we had probably 60 minutes of gas left when we turned. We went straight into the wreck, didn't descend any levels down stairs or anything, and the areas that we were in were fairly silt-free. We were deliberately conservative in avoiding the bowels of the ship due to silt, complexity and deco concerns -- which was good because we wound up trying as hard as we could to silt up one room (we're not very good at this game yet). Plus these were also intentionally sunk wrecks so the rooms were pretty well cleaned out of entanglement hazards, etc.
We allowed big fat safety margins in how much gas we brought, how much we limited the penetration and where we limited the penetration to -- even on a 'sanitized' wreck in 'only' 100 fsw of water...
I don't know how the dive plan on the spiegel grove happened. I have to assume that everyone involved thought it was an 'easy' wreck that they could approach just like a swimthrough.
There's nothing stopping the same mistakes being made on the Cape Breton or the Saskatchewan, though. The Breton, in particular, is a large ship and you could easily get lost in the bowels of it far enough away from any of the holes punched in it that you could drown before getting out.
We had double-130s full of 30/30 and ran a reel. That means we had 3.5x as much gas as they did. We also only planned on 10 mins into the wreck and actually turned at around 8-9 mins into it. It only took us 6 mins to get out. The gas plan was closer to sixths (500 psi max used going in) and we had probably 60 minutes of gas left when we turned. We went straight into the wreck, didn't descend any levels down stairs or anything, and the areas that we were in were fairly silt-free. We were deliberately conservative in avoiding the bowels of the ship due to silt, complexity and deco concerns -- which was good because we wound up trying as hard as we could to silt up one room (we're not very good at this game yet). Plus these were also intentionally sunk wrecks so the rooms were pretty well cleaned out of entanglement hazards, etc.
We allowed big fat safety margins in how much gas we brought, how much we limited the penetration and where we limited the penetration to -- even on a 'sanitized' wreck in 'only' 100 fsw of water...
I don't know how the dive plan on the spiegel grove happened. I have to assume that everyone involved thought it was an 'easy' wreck that they could approach just like a swimthrough.
There's nothing stopping the same mistakes being made on the Cape Breton or the Saskatchewan, though. The Breton, in particular, is a large ship and you could easily get lost in the bowels of it far enough away from any of the holes punched in it that you could drown before getting out.