90 deg reg elbow

[Mattleycrue76]

Not to mention this is caving not cave diving.

You make it sound like you anticipate a fairly shallow dive. Why then the 18/45?

[CaptnJack]

Not to mention this is caving not cave diving.

You make it sound like you anticipate a fairly shallow dive. Why then the 18/45?

Its dry and wet shallow for the first ~1500ft then goes down to nobody knows. The line gets blown out every winter so has to be relaid. But its currently sketched to 160ffw with the bottom at 190ffw. 15/55 would be a better gas since that would take you beyond 190ffw BUT its too damn cold to really push EOL much and then you have to have more reserves for exiting the shallow stuff as 15/55 is marginally breathable going up and down at an average of 8ffw.

The "6 tanks" really only gives about 80cf of penetration gas for getting to the EOL and possibly beyond.

I really just needed a fixed elbow to setup my razor

[Nwbrewer]

I really just needed a fixed elbow to setup my razor

You expected a thread on this board to stay on topic? Even the NHZ threads seem to wander a bit.

[CaptnJack]

I really just needed a fixed elbow to setup my razor

You expected a thread on this board to stay on topic? Even the NHZ threads seem to wander a bit.

LOL no I'm surprised its still on topic as much as it is!
Ordered my Razor last night actually.

[spatman]

Could be worse. We could be talking about can lights and batteries.

[CaptnJack]

Could be worse. We could be talking about can lights and batteries.

Actually the light is more of an issue than you'd think. Hard to get the canister mounted correctly with the forward d-rings likely in the way. Since I'm using steels I may leave the right forward ring off and just have the left one for stages. I'll have too see the conflicts to know for sure.

[spatman]

Could be worse. We could be talking about can lights and batteries.

Actually the light is more of an issue than you'd think. Hard to get the canister mounted correctly with the forward d-rings likely in the way. Since I'm using steels I may leave the right forward ring off and just have the left one for stages. I'll have too see the conflicts to know for sure.

Well, since your derailing this thread even more....

I find the can on my belt to be a pain if it's too far to one side, often getting in the way of how the tanks ride. If my center is zero, I wear it at 45deg to my left. I know this is not great for caves, but works in OW.

Have you considered butt mounting it? It does require a longer cord, though. I may try to have mine lengthened soon.

[CaptnJack]

Could be worse. We could be talking about can lights and batteries.

Actually the light is more of an issue than you'd think. Hard to get the canister mounted correctly with the forward d-rings likely in the way. Since I'm using steels I may leave the right forward ring off and just have the left one for stages. I'll have too see the conflicts to know for sure.

Well, since your derailing this thread even more....

I find the can on my belt to be a pain if it's too far to one side, often getting in the way of how the tanks ride. If my center is zero, I wear it at 45deg to my left. I know this is not great for caves, but works in OW.

Have you considered butt mounting it? It does require a longer cord, though. I may try to have mine lengthened soon.

I don't really want to mess with the cord as its an EO cord. And certainly don't want the EO connector where I can't reach+see it. Not to mention butt mounting is commonly done sideways. Not sure how that would work with the rails back there either. I will probably move the right forward d-ring back a bit until its just slightly forward of the tank, and then slide the can back so it rides in the nook between me and the tank. Its only a 9Ah can (with 15Ah Li-ion battery) so should fit good enough. I'm more worried about all the lead I need with the weezle extreme+ (since I won't have a SS plate)

[Nwbrewer]

I don't really want to mess with the cord as its an EO cord. And certainly don't want the EO connector where I can't reach+see it. Not to mention butt mounting is commonly done sideways. Not sure how that would work with the rails back there either. I will probably move the right forward d-ring back a bit until its just slightly forward of the tank, and then slide the can back so it rides in the nook between me and the tank. Its only a 9Ah can (with 15Ah Li-ion battery) so should fit good enough. I'm more worried about all the lead I need with the weezle extreme+ (since I won't have a SS plate)

Rails? Are you adding a butt plate?

You're going to find that you want the D-rings a lot further back than you would with aluminum tanks, especially if you want the cold water big D rings. I tried waist mounting mine in a few different spots and finally gave up and went with a butt mount. I think once you start adding stages and deco bottles you're going to find that you don't have that much area to store stuff around your waste.

[CaptnJack]

I don't really want to mess with the cord as its an EO cord. And certainly don't want the EO connector where I can't reach+see it. Not to mention butt mounting is commonly done sideways. Not sure how that would work with the rails back there either. I will probably move the right forward d-ring back a bit until its just slightly forward of the tank, and then slide the can back so it rides in the nook between me and the tank. Its only a 9Ah can (with 15Ah Li-ion battery) so should fit good enough. I'm more worried about all the lead I need with the weezle extreme+ (since I won't have a SS plate)

Rails? Are you adding a butt plate?

You're going to find that you want the D-rings a lot further back than you would with aluminum tanks, especially if you want the cold water big D rings. I tried waist mounting mine in a few different spots and finally gave up and went with a butt mount. I think once you start adding stages and deco bottles you're going to find that you don't have that much area to store stuff around your waste.

The Razor has both a rail-like plate in the back over your butt. And more forwardly located d-rings as well. I need the rails for the primary steel tanks and the more forward ring (at least the left one) for aluminum deco bottles and stages. BUT assuming I am using a leash and left mounting whatever deco/stage I am using at the time, I can move the right d-ring to serve as a stopper for the can light and then tuck it in right in front of the hp100 on the right side. Maybe not perfect I obviously haven't tried yet. I am pretty sure my buddy worked out a way with Bogaerts to avoid butt mounting his light. Although that would have been in MX with ali primary cylinders I'm not reinventing the wheel here, its an established system.

[CaptnJack]

Razor showed up today, definitely can't butt mount the light canister. That space is needed for the inflation bottle (an AL6).

I moved the right D-ring to where I'm guessing it will work as a good stopper for the canister. I'll see next weekend or maybe the one after.

[Nwbrewer]

I still don't know what rail you're referring to. Doesn't it have 2 D-rings on each side, one for heavy bottles, one for light bottles?

http://www.gosidemount.com/Razor/razor_harness_2.asp

[CaptnJack]

I still don't know what rail you're referring to. Doesn't it have 2 D-rings on each side, one for heavy bottles, one for light bottles?

http://www.gosidemount.com/Razor/razor_harness_2.asp

There are 2 square cut drings way in the back. Those function like a butt plate rail and what I need for the main steel tanks. The left dring is in the normal position or slightly forward for stages. Since there's no way I am using al80s in 41F water the right dring is not doing anything. hp100s/lp85s are not going to get bouyant and need to be forward clipped. So I don't need the righ dring at all even. I can move it forward to serve as a stopper for the canister.

[Nwbrewer]

I still don't know what rail you're referring to. Doesn't it have 2 D-rings on each side, one for heavy bottles, one for light bottles?

http://www.gosidemount.com/Razor/razor_harness_2.asp

There are 2 square cut drings way in the back. Those function like a butt plate rail and what I need for the main steel tanks. The left dring is in the normal position or slightly forward for stages. Since there's no way I am using al80s in 41F water the right dring is not doing anything. hp100s/lp85s are not going to get bouyant and need to be forward clipped. So I don't need the righ dring at all even. I can move it forward to serve as a stopper for the canister.

Got it, so you're going to clip off to the B-ring or the DAP rings? or did you get one of these? https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=1277

[CaptnJack]

So far I just have the stock square cut rings back there. The lumbar portion of the weighting system actually screws into them. They are surprisingly close together, one over each cheek

The whole kit came with a butt pocket too but I am not sure I'll be able to use that. There's ALOT of stuff back there. The al6 (eventually), the steel tank attachments, and a leash for stages. As much as thigh pockets are suboptimal for sidemounting I may even up using them anyway, depends on where the tails of the hp100s end up.

[CaptnJack]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

[renoun]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

[sarcasm]Have you considered a Sherpa?[/sarcasm] Wouldn't cave diving be simpler if you could just have a porter take care off all that annoying equipment.

[CaptnJack]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

[sarcasm]Have you considered a Sherpa?[/sarcasm]

I need sherpas!! Are you volunteering? You got until September to get some cave training.

[renoun]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

[sarcasm]Have you considered a Sherpa?[/sarcasm]

I need sherpas!! Are you volunteering? You got until September to get some cave training.

I actually breath and have a sense of fear. You need a few fellows that could do the whole cave on a breath hold and wonder why you insist on schlepping all that heavy gear around.

[CaptnJack]

Turns out the square rings at the back are not for clipping main tanks onto. They are for other gear and the removable pocket. I have the main drings pretty far back now though, about 1" lateral from the square rings. I have the tanks boltsnaps surprisingly short (well surprising for me). I'm still tweaking the band clamps on the tanks but getting the fore-aft distances and spacing right is obviously critical to keep the tanks from swinging on the neck bungie.

[spatman]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

I'm still working that one out too. Right now I'm keeping them in my pocket, but it's not ideal.

[CaptnJack]

I also need to figure out where to put my backup lights since I am sticking with my twist-on scouts.

I'm still working that one out too. Right now I'm keeping them in my pocket, but it's not ideal.

Mine will fit on my harness. I haven't unthreaded everything to put some rubber bands on yet and I'm kind of dreading that, I barely have it adjusted!

I'm still waiting for some hoses, mostly for the left reg. Those should be here by the weekend so I can try it out sunday.

[Nwbrewer]

Turns out the square rings at the back are not for clipping main tanks onto. They are for other gear and the removable pocket. I have the main drings pretty far back now though, about 1" lateral from the square rings. I have the tanks boltsnaps surprisingly short (well surprising for me). I'm still tweaking the band clamps on the tanks but getting the fore-aft distances and spacing right is obviously critical to keep the tanks from swinging on the neck bungie.

You can attach a butt plate with rails if you want. Some webbing and some SS book screws is all it takes.

I have almost no tail on my tanks when using steels and big cold water style bolt snaps. Even with Fixed D-rings I have to put them a lot further back than I do with al80's. With al tanks the way the Razor keeps the tanks tight to your body is by pulling them along your body, towards your knees. (Watch some of the youtube videos, you can see that the tank is being pushed along your body by the bungee) The nice thing is this allows the tanks to ride a little further behind your armpits, and to see the gauges you just pull the tank fwd against the bungee tension) Steels are too heavy when full to do this, so you wind up with the d-rings really far back and the tanks hanging straight down off of them, and the Bungee providing just vertical support. It does take a bit of trial and error to get the right spot for the bands. Fun though, isn't it?

I but mount both the al6 and the canlight. I have more realestate in that are than you do though. The wing will go over the top of it, so it's not as streamlined as it is without it. I route it up from the right so that the valve knob is pointing down and is easier (for meanyway) to get to it. Video is super crappy, and my DS hose was too short so the 6 pulled funny, but you can see what I did here - http://vimeo.com/34104531

[CaptnJack]

With al tanks the way the Razor keeps the tanks tight to your body is by pulling them along your body, towards your knees. (Watch some of the youtube videos, you can see that the tank is being pushed along your body by the bungee) The nice thing is this allows the tanks to ride a little further behind your armpits, and to see the gauges you just pull the tank fwd against the bungee tension)

This is backwards buddy. The bungie pulls the tanks forward into the armpits by the neck bungie. You can imagine the boltsnap leaving the tank and going up and back towards your feet to attach at a 45deg angle. Any other way and the tanks "swing". So the tanks are in tension between the boltsnap at the rear and the bungie at the front. The attachment point on the 100s is alot further towards the neck than I imagined so they are surprisingly balanced on that one boltsnap. My cord loops are only about 1" long but that's partly a function of using 1-1/8" boltsnaps which are a bit larger than optimal.

I can't put other rail like plates back there like you linked above as I have the lumbar weights bolted on. It would have to hang over my butt. If that were the case, the 100s would then be too far back out of my armpits. They need to be pretty far forward to run the suit and wing inflation. There's an 8" LPI on the right tank for the wing and the inflator itself is on the left chest so you can imagine that's sucked into your armpit pretty tight.

Even in the basement its darn hot lying on the floor in undergarments adjusting it all.

[Nwbrewer]

I'm a hack. I have no classes on SM at all, so continue to take my opinion FWIW, but take a look at Steve in this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSV91lQP ... er&list=UL and you can see what I mean.

Look at the clips and the direction they are pointing. Here's a really good picture of what I mean -