SM, SCR, and CCR questions...

[Jeff Pack]

The sidemount discussion got me to thinking.

I’d like to increase my dive time, but doubles is not an option for me with my back.

Sidemount is interesting, but there’s a fair cost to switching to sidemount as a separate rig setup. Now with SM, how do you boat dive? Can you roll off the edge like a normal Back Gas tank?

An SCR is interesting, but from the little I’ve read, below around 150ft, the dive time is significantly impacted due to no flow regulation, like a CCR would have.

A lot of folks on rebreatherworld posted that going SCR was a mistake, and they eventually wound up with a CCR system anyways.

The low End KISS CCR’s seem an entry’ish level CCR?

Now when I was at the Expo, one booth had what they referred to as a “recreational” rebreather, with a limit of around 200ft. I don’t recall the model/manufacturer though. It was a plastic housing for the scrubber (single cell).

I don’t plan on going tech/super deep diving again, so the 200ft limit is acceptable for me as a limitation. But I like the flexibility beyond rec depths if I so choose.

[CaptnJack]

You can put sidemount tanks on in the water but can take forever and doesn't work in many conditions (live drop being the worst). Of course you can drop them and ruin your day that way too. If your think SM is "expensive" because its redundant OC systems, then honestly any kind of rebreather is really out of the question for you financially.

As far as SCR vs CCR goes... I suggest one of the 2x annual demo days hosted by Curt and Mel.

[Jeff Pack]

What I meant is if I get a dedicated SM setup, its around 1k isnt it? At that cost, I'd just go rebreather.

[John Rawlings]

+1 to what Richard just said.

If you wants answers to CCR questions, there's one of Curt and Mel's "CCR Experiences" coming up on June 24th: http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18082

[CaptnJack]

What I meant is if I get a dedicated SM setup, its around 1k isnt it? At that cost, I'd just go rebreather.

Where did you get that number? Most dedicated SM BCs are around $650ish new. But otherwise I'd guess you have all the rest except maybe $100 in hoses.

CCR will be way more than that even used. And you still need a bunch of OC gear for bailout at 200ft. And a CCR plus associated OC bailout is not necessarily lighter than doubles

[Nwbrewer]

What I meant is if I get a dedicated SM setup, its around 1k isnt it?

What are you including int that price?

[Joshua Smith]

If you're serious about CCR, you are definitely talking about thousands and thousands of dollars. Anywhere from 5-10 K for a unit, and another $1,200- 1,500 for training.

[Dmitchell]

The low End KISS CCR’s seem an entry’ish level CCR?

.

Careful with statements like that when you don't know what you are talking about (yet). My KISS will go about anywhere that the rest of the units out there will go. There's no such thing as an entry level CCR they are all expensive and you buy the proper tool for the job.

You mention going below 150' Once you start down that path you are going to have to carry some weight, even my KISS is pretty darn heavy when it's all setup and then I have bailout to carry as well. OC you are carrying 3-4 bottles be they doubles/deco or sidemount/deco to go below 150' and more as you descend deeper.

Bottom line is that if your back isn't up to it you might want to reconsider what you are doing.

[CaptnJack]

Bottom line is that if your back isn't up to it you might want to reconsider what you are doing.

True dat! At some point there's just a mismatch between what we desire and what we can physically achieve. Personal limits just need to be respected regardless.

[Joshua Smith]

Yup. No magic bullets out there, yet. You're going to pay for the depth one way or another. For dives between 150-200, you're going to need to bring 2 BO bottles....2x al 40s is workable at 150-160, depending on bottom time, but they start turning into al 80s as you go deeper and/or stay longer. Added to the weight of the CCR, its still lighter than dubs, but its not "light."

CCRs are cool tools, but they come with other costs of time and maintenance besides a hefty price tag.

[Jeff Pack]

I only just started looking yesterday, and may be totally fooling myself, which is why I ask here for the unadulterated information...

In either case, I'm signed up for the CCR thingie on the 24th. End result may be

a> Nothing
b> Look further into SM
c> Get A KISS or some other non 6k+ rebreather. (I see around 3700 CDN?)

[ArcticDiver]

Given my situation this thread is very interesting to me. Next month I HOPE to be released by my neurosurgeon to do whatever my body will allow. It looks like I will be left with some long term deficits but nothing that would interfere with diving. But, I'm sure I will find out just how much stress my rebuilt lower spine will tolerate.

Weight: As it stands now I think cold water diving puts about 120# on my back. The warm water diving I do most isn't much less because all I'm losing is the extra lead for the dry suit, still doubles or twins.

I've considered CCR but that still will be over 100# on my back?

Money: Money is a consideration but not primary, I think. Most of the time I've found that I can recover anywhere from 50% to 70% of purchase price when I sell used but looks nearly unused dive gear. (I really take care of my life support stuff).

So, can I go CCR; use it for 5+ years; sell it and still not be too awfully obscene about my spending?

[Jeff Pack]

I just looked at a Kiss rebreather and it said 48 pounds, but you add 2 BO al40's, I guess its close to a set of doubles by the time its done...

I'll let you know after the intro, but at least then I'll have somethign other than "inter-facts" (internet facts)...

[diverden]

I just switched to a used rEvo III hybrid partially because I just really got over dealing with twin 130s or LP 104s. My plantar fascia have never been the same. Not just the diving, the lugging in and out of cars/trucks/boats/fill shops, VIPing them, etc. The other reason I switched is purely about fascination, and (mostly) bubble free diving. I have easily spent $10,000 and I still need a little ways to go with bailout.

As other people have said the rebreather on your back is not the whole story. With lead and a pair of Faber HP23s, I think mine is probably 60 lbs, 70 tops. You need bailout. But, consider the bailout like deco bottles or aluminum 80 side mount. All the bailout can be carried down to shore in advance or clipped on you right before you giant stride into the water or you attach/detach them in the water if surface conditions support it.

[dlh]

I have a Sport Kiss, and it does weigh about 45# with a pair of LP14cf bottles. I generally dive with a 30cf stage, but I rarely go below 120'. It also probably costs more than 6k. Maybe for 6K you can get a tricked out used model, or a bare bones retail unit, but you are going to need to add a proper BC, swivel joints to the regs, a PP02 capable computer, a backup computer, spare sensors, spare parts kit, Sorb, O2 fills, etc. Plus training. Then you really need to dive it monthly at least to keep up the skill level for safe diving. Add training and the costs are not small.

But, with all that you can do some really cool stuff, and not just deep water. I just returned from Indonesia where my party of 10 CCR divers routinely did multiple 2 & 3 hours dives every day. And it's really fun to dive silent.

[ljjames]

When it start shipping, the ISC Pathfinder will be a nice option for those seeking a very light weight, moderate depth (200'), moderate price (somewhere between 5-6k) CCR. The canister/scrubber/etc.. and a single O2 bottle weigh in at less than an HP80. Obviously you still need to wear enough lead to sink, and going CCR is not a way to eliminate carrying bottles (as Josh already mentioned). The base system can be configured with a single O2 bottle on the canister and all your dil off board carried in a stage bottle, but can be used with two just like a standard meg.

And to echo what a few folks have said, and it looks like you already have, absolutely sign up for the CCR demo day

[Jeff Pack]

Just got back from the course, what fun! I think my choice was between the Revo and the Titan. I did not like the pathfinder at all. Too cluttered up front. The Titan I think is fairly new to the market, and is electronic only, while the Revo's can be E/M/H/CCR units.