Divinghe PBM Mariner - Anyone Done This Dive

scubnewb · Post by **scubnewb** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Looking into doing this dive soon, has anyone done this dive? Looking to gather as much info, advice and experienced knowledge as possible.

Thanks!

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 pm

For anyone who doesnt know about it: http://www.planyourdive.com/map/sites/7 ... 20Mariner/

Also: http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-6c.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0uAa1WH51U

GPS Coords: N 47° 30.319' W 122° 12.840'

No, it is not a deep one. It is 65-70 ft deep.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:40 pm

Looks like a deep one, I thought only a short time ago you only had a handful of dives under your belt scubnewb. Ready to do a 120ish foot dive?

scubnewb · Post by **scubnewb** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:42 pm

is only about 60/70 feet deep.

defied · Post by **defied** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:48 pm

Norris wrote:Looks like a deep one, I thought only a short time ago you only had a handful of dives under your belt scubnewb. Ready to do a 120ish foot dive?

Arrooo?

Jan K · Post by **Jan K** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:29 pm

defied wrote:
Norris wrote:Looks like a deep one, I thought only a short time ago you only had a handful of dives under your belt scubnewb. Ready to do a 120ish foot dive?
Arrooo?

This PBM is in 120 feet ...

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:37 pm

That water is a little too blue for Lake Washington...... i think youre thinking of a different plane. Every source ive looked at says 65 to 70 ft

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:48 pm

That was my bad, I was looking at the wrong site. My apologies. I am seeing 60-70 feet too.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:49 pm

It's in 60 ffw. I've dived it. It's pretty cool.

Jan K · Post by **Jan K** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:50 pm

Mortuus wrote:That water is a little too blue for Lake Washington...... i think youre thinking of a different plane. Every source ive looked at says 65 to 70 ft

Enewetak Atoll, Marshall Islands ...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:51 pm

She's 65ffw in Lake Washington near the outlet of the Cedar River. I have done her 2 or 3 times.

She's actually fairly hard to find since she sits in a "hole" in the silt created when the Navy tried to salvage her. They got her to the surface, something broke and she fell back down into the crater created when they raised her. She was wrecked on the surface being towed and nobody was hurt, 1 Navy salvage diver died duing the raising attempt. The tail broke off and is gone now. The Navy put a heavy mesh screen over the open aft end of the fuselage to keep people out.

She's not do-able in winter due to the runoff in the Cedar. A good summer dive although the jet skis can be pretty active in that general area of the lake on warm days. Apart from finding her in the first place, the runoff from the Cedar River, and the jetskis she's pretty hazard free.

When are you thinking of going newb?

scubnewb · Post by **scubnewb** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:01 pm

Josh, you got sometime any time in the near future to chat about this dive with me? Let me know. I still got your number.

Joshua Smith wrote:It's in 60 ffw. I've dived it. It's pretty cool.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:24 pm

scubnewb wrote:Josh, you got sometime any time in the near future to chat about this dive with me? Let me know. I still got your number.

Joshua Smith wrote:It's in 60 ffw. I've dived it. It's pretty cool.

Sure, but I really don't know much of anything. It's there. I dived it once 5 years ago. It was pretty neat.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:58 pm

I will second that, Smitty doesn't know much of anything.

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:00 pm

If you drop down on a small log on a hill of silt that looked like a 'wreck' on your depth finder then you're very close, head downslope into the depression like rjack said, you'll probably find the one float first, then you keep going to find the rest of it.

I haven't been on it in probably 6 or 7 years though...

Its pretty small, after 20 minutes you'll have seen it all three times...

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:47 pm

I was thinking it might be a good idea to drop a line down in the general location, then run a reel out in an expanding spiral until the plane is found. Then tie it off on something at the plane

BDub · Post by **BDub** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:27 pm

Mortuus wrote:I was thinking it might be a good idea to drop a line down in the general location, then run a reel out in an expanding spiral until the plane is found. Then tie it off on something at the plane

Dropping a line in the general location is good, as is a search, if needed (talk to DSteding about that one).

However, I am curious why you would tie off.

Locking down the reel and setting it down nicely, without an end tie, has always worked well for us

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:29 pm

Idk. Why not tie off? Im no expert in reels. Tying off seems to be the logical thing to do as opposed to just letting it lay on the (incredibly silty) bottom

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:17 am

Mortuus wrote:Idk. Why not tie off? Im no expert in reels. Tying off seems to be the logical thing to do as opposed to just letting it lay on the (incredibly silty) bottom

I'm probably going to sound like a jerk here, but I'm actually just trying to be clear and direct.

Your reel is not what matters. Preserving the wrecked aircraft is what matters. The various aircraft in the lake are historic, made of lightweight metals that have been underwater for decades, and are extremely delicate. If you can't dive it without touching it and tying off to it, don't dive it.

- John

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:07 am

What John said.
Lay or set the reel on a durable area. There is no need to tie it off or handle the wrecks at all. People tying off and doing other nonsense like that are noticably trashing the Lake Washington wrecks (planes in particular).

The PBM is at least 10ft tall and if you know what it looks like on a depth sounder its not hard to recognize. If you don't know what you're doing, then go with someone who does to learn.

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:45 am

I would never dream of tying it off to the airplane itself. Ive never been to the site, so I dont know if theres rocks nearby or what. You dont sound like a jerk, but give me a little credit here.
I never said I would tie it off on the plane. Just on something thats there (rocks, logs, etc). If there is anything there. Better than having it laying on the ground right?

CaptnJack wrote:If you don't know what you're doing, then go with someone who does to learn.

Thats only applicable to the reel use for this dive. And thats why I am asking here first. I will have no trouble actually using it as long as I know proper procedure for doing so.

*facedesk*
Not sure I like how people always have the tendency to assume the worst with other divers on this site (or SB).
I know everyone is acting in the best interest of the marine environment, but still.... I cant speak for others, but im not gonna go off willy nilly like a total idiot just doing stuff without knowing how. =/

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:16 am

Mortuus, the thread is asking for advice from people who have dove the plane. You've posted various stuff about how you "think" it should be done but without any context about whether you've done the PBM or any of the other planes in Lake WA. Its fine to not know, so instead of phrasing your responses as statements about what people should do, maybe ask how to do something instead.

There's nothing there to tie off to except an old rope near the nose which was part of the (1960s or 70s) salvage operation. So the least impact way to "connect" the shot line to the wreck is to lay the line over the wing, prop, or the top of the fuselage and allow the reel or spool to dangle on the other side. Or if the shot line is already close enough just pick it up and set it next to a part of the plane with minimal chance to snag it.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:16 am

Mortuus, before you get too upset by some of the responses here, keep in mind that people are not just commenting to you specifically, but also (and often mostly) to other divers reading this thread that may not know about such things.

Mortuus · Post by **Mortuus** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:05 pm

CapnJack, this thread is in dive planning, and i happen to be going on this dive (assuming phil lets me on his boat!

). So i dont think there is anything wrong with trying to have a hand in planning it, especially since i want to get experience planning dives to sites i have not been to. I dont think not having been to the site excludes me from this thread. And i did ask for advice fyi. Thats why i was given answers to begin with.....
Spatman, i am not upset, just disappointed. I have been using internet forums long enough to not get upset by stupid stuff, but since most users here are adults, i like to think that there will be some degree of respect among divers. I may be younger than almost all of you, but i dont react well when people try to teach me as if i am a child. I realize it may be information for others as well, but i cant imagine others like that either.
But no matter. Im out of this thread. Its just devolving into an argument, which is not what i wanted to start when i started asking about reel use.

BDub · Post by **BDub** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Mortuus wrote:CapnJack, this thread is in dive planning, and i happen to be going on this dive (assuming phil lets me on his boat! ). So i dont think there is anything wrong with trying to have a hand in planning it, especially since i want to get experience planning dives to sites i have not been to. I dont think not having been to the site excludes me from this thread. And i did ask for advice fyi. Thats why i was given answers to begin with.....
Spatman, i am not upset, just disappointed. I have been using internet forums long enough to not get upset by stupid stuff, but since most users here are adults, i like to think that there will be some degree of respect among divers. I may be younger than almost all of you, but i dont react well when people try to teach me as if i am a child. I realize it may be information for others as well, but i cant imagine others like that either.
But no matter. Im out of this thread. Its just devolving into an argument, which is not what i wanted to start when i started asking about reel use.

Mortuus, I think it's great you're planning a dive on this wreck or other wrecks and I applaud your efforts.

Personally, my eyebrows raised when I saw something posted about tie'ing off. The wrecks in the lake are a bit different from the Sound in that since it's cold freshwater, they are very well preserved. Many of them are also quite old (some of them may even be older than John Rawlings

, but we're still waiting for confirmation of that) and very delicate.

Frankly, many of them are getting destroyed, whether it be from improper anchoring/shotlines, reels, kicks, scooters, etc. Most of the wrecks are wood, and sometimes even canvas. They are not being treated well, and the damage is coming from divers.

So, while I think it's great you are taking the initiative to plan a dive on the plane, I also think it's a good idea to do a couple of dives on the wrecks in the lake (doesn't really matter which wrecks, as long as they're within your training level), with someone who already has, to learn how to dive them while not causing any further damage. The techniques learned from one or two dives on any of the wrecks are applicable to most of them, but they aren't skills easily learned on a dive planning forum.

As I'm typing this, there's been 302 views on this thread, which was started early yesterday afternoon. There are a lot more people reading this, than are actively involved in this thread. Since the thread title is fairly clear, I think it's safe to assume some non-participants / lurkers may be reading this for information in planning their own dive. It's important they see this as well.

And while you may not have meant it's a good idea to tie off to the wreck itself, others may not know that, and it should be said that diving the wrecks properly includes being trained not only in the use of reel/line, but also how to best use the reel/line on the wrecks in the lake, specifically.

Northwest Dive Club