Northwest Dive Club

Have you guys seen this documentary? I cannot believe sometimes what we are capable of to make money. Also the fact that they took OUR puget sound whea makes me even angrier. I for one will never support Seaworld. But it makes me think..are the aquariums and zoos OK? I'm thinking if my little guy wants to see ORCAs i will take him on a charter or something..

Yeah, I watched it. It was totally depressing. I mean, it's a great documentary, but it sure makes you want to burn seaworld to the ground, if that's possible.

Joshua Smith wrote:Yeah, I watched it. It was totally depressing. I mean, it's a great documentary, but it sure makes you want to burn seaworld to the ground, if that's possible.

Yeah i second all that. Ignorance really is bliss i suppose.. I remember as a kid going up to Vancouver to see the belugas.. They are my favorite whales. But it makes you think how they were obtained. I have heard you can dive with them waaaayy up north.. Definetly on my bucket list.

For what its worth i believe this shoulda been posted in "everything else" but could not change that or did not have the know how

Also for what its worth

Haven't seen the movie..BUT i am a glutton for punishment.

Consider the cultural aspect of seaworld and zoo's all over the world. Sure the animals are not in their natural environment but that is the point. They are able to be witnessed by all different cultures who otherwise would never see them and probably never give a damn. I was heart broken to hear that teens and young adults who grew up in LA Compton had NEVER seen the ocean, even though it was a 15 minute drive away!

My point is, that these animals in Zoo's can be seen as ambassadors for the greater good. They grow awareness in the communities far removed from their environment. They make young kids dream and give a platform by which conservation can be taught. Not saying things have been done perfectly, but it is not all bad!

WaGigKpn wrote:Haven't seen the movie..BUT i am a glutton for punishment.

Consider the cultural aspect of seaworld and zoo's all over the world. Sure the animals are not in their natural environment but that is the point. They are able to be witnessed by all different cultures who otherwise would never see them and probably never give a damn. I was heart broken to hear that teens and young adults who grew up in LA Compton had NEVER seen the ocean, even though it was a 15 minute drive away!

My point is, that these animals in Zoo's can be seen as ambassadors for the greater good. They grow awareness in the communities far removed from their environment. They make young kids dream and give a platform by which conservation can be taught. Not saying things have been done perfectly, but it is not all bad!

Watch the movie and tell me if you still feel the same way.

isac777 wrote: I'm thinking if my little guy wants to see ORCAs i will take him on a charter or something..

I have had hundreds of whale sightings from the shore. Over 70 swam by on the day I took this picture. Take your little guy to one of the hot spots. You'll see many other things in addition to whales and have a great day on the seashore.
-Curt

Well produced and shocking.

Spent the last day trying to digest all the "accidents" that were blamed on "Trainer Error".

This is one more chapter in the zoo discussion. Good arguments on both sides, especially for those who do not have ready access to the ocean or wilderness.

I was left with contempt for the former employees who, despite their pleas of ignorance, had to know what was going on but did nothing about it. Instead, they opted for a pay check and, more important, ego satisfaction provided by what they testified was an exciting job. CNN coached them well and they displayed a remarkable lack of ethics and responsibility.

I keep thinking about the professed lack of knowing accidents were happening, by the previous trainers.

How is this possible? I imagine it would be a pretty close knit community and when someone has a whale make a move for them wouldn't you think this would get around? I can believe SeaWorld wouldn't put it in the monthly newsletter but, trainer to trainer...

It just doesn't ring true that none of them knew the situation that could present itself.

I haven't watched the movie yet and reserve the option to change my opinion and even throw up a little. But WaGigKpn makes a point that I have considered too. Without seeing animals I worry that they'll be out of sight, out of mind. Look what's happening to the coral reefs, which are definitely hard for most people to see. Who outside a place like this gives a crap about coral reefs and ocean biodiversity? How many people understand problems like the loss of sharks and the collapse of fisheries? Out of sight, out of mind.

I'm not saying that zoos and SeaWorld are great for the animals inside them. But if we can show that their operation motivates a conservation movement that is a net positive for the species, there is an argument for their existence, even if they are awful places.

Obviously the mere presence of zoos isn't a magic bullet. Plenty of animals that can be relatively easily seen are in dire straits, like elephants and rhinos. But perhaps they'd be gone already if they were regarded as nearly mythical by the general public.

I'd like it if this issue could be researched. If we could somehow confirm or refute the notion that captive animals help wild populations by being ambassadors, we could have an informed debate.

I certainly don't feel GOOD about places like SeaWorld but perhaps they are in some way a necessary evil.

Like Josh said, I may change my mind once I see the movie. I've read about it, and the captive orca issue, and it does sound horrifying. Zoos ought to be held to the highest standards if we are to continue having them at all, and perhaps some species shouldn't be kept.

I feel like there's a very subjective line between animals that are ok to keep in captivity and those that aren't. A seemingly dumb goldfish probably doesn't know what it's missing. Orcas, on the other hand, shouldn't be kept in a tank.

Just my 2psi.



Topic moved to Everything Else.

The discussion of what should and should not be kept in captivity to teach people about a world they otherwise would never encounter is a long standing one. Even the idea of keeping animals in captivity for educational purposes is controversial.

I have never liked the SeaWorld model, or those patterned after it. They are blatantly entertainment with a micro serving of education. In fact that wasn't even the thrust of "Blackfish". The thrust was not that SeaWorld captured and displayed for entertainment sea creatures. It was that they did so cruelly and without regard for either animal or human safety. Pretty callous.

The movie, to me, was allowing people who had every chance to report the problems to make self-serving excuses for their lack of decency and responsibility. Wonder what inducement they were given? Or, maybe just the opportunity to in their own minds absolve themselves was enough.

I will be surprised if, when the initial uproar is over there is any change. Free Willy didn't make any difference.

I helped take care of a newly captured Killer Whale at Ted Griffin's original Seattle Aquarium one night in 1971. That's where Namu was kept in the 60's. I was just a young diver and didn't know anything about them. I was told to 1. don't let her roll over, 2. Put zinc oxide (I think) on sensitive surfaces, 3. Put some fish between her cheek and teeth, 4. She won't bite. I don't know how they could know number 4 for certain, it had just been lifted off the fishing boat after a weeks travel. It was at first scary getting in the pool and approaching the huge head full of teeth. Then it was very sad listening to what sounded like plaintive cries of distress. The Black Fish documentary exposed a great deal of animal abuse and disregard for staff safety. I think the capture and display of Orcas served it's purpose decades ago.

Local interest book: "Namu Quest for the Killer Whale" by Ted Griffin.