Northwest Dive Club

1. Which arm do those who "do it right" wear their back up bottom timers on?

2. In singles people generally end a dive with no less than 500psi in their tank. What about doubles? 500psi rule still apply even though you have twice the gas?

3. How often do you have to return brand new tanks for having blood/rust in them like I did today??

Jeremy wrote:1. Which arm do those who "do it right" wear their back up bottom timers on?

2. In singles people generally end a dive with no less than 500psi in their tank. What about doubles? 500psi rule still apply even though you have twice the gas?

3. How often do you have to return brand new tanks for having blood/rust in them like I did today??

Right pocket

Yes

No

Right pocket? Interesting answer! I don't get it though....why not just wear it?

Jeremy wrote:Right pocket? Interesting answer! I don't get it though....why not just wear it?

Because i have a fully functional one on my right arm already, and I have more than enough time to get to the one in my pocket out in the event that the primary fails (and if i'm mildly concerned, I'll give my buddy the nod - also so he knows whats up - and he'll cover depth/time till i get back up out of said pocket) Too many big things on my arms get in the way of camera, getting stuff out of pockets, managing valve and/or boom drills.

I don't have very much forearm space, and I even clip off my meg controller Bigger folks can probably wear it all on the arms like MTV bling, but not me...

I don't claim to "do it right", but I wear my backup on my right arm ... just "upslope" from my primary.

Primary is a Liquivision X1 ... backup is a Shearwater Petrel.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Jeremy wrote:1. Which arm do those who "do it right" wear their back up bottom timers on?

2. In singles people generally end a dive with no less than 500psi in their tank. What about doubles? 500psi rule still apply even though you have twice the gas?

3. How often do you have to return brand new tanks for having blood/rust in them like I did today??

1. My buddies right arm

2. Yes. The reason for the 500psi rule is that analog SPG's (and to some degree digital pressure transducers) are least accurate at the extreme ends of their range. (that 500psi might only be 200psi....)

3. Ummm... no.

Jeremy wrote:1. Which arm do those who "do it right" wear their back up bottom timers on?

2. In singles people generally end a dive with no less than 500psi in their tank. What about doubles? 500psi rule still apply even though you have twice the gas?

3. How often do you have to return brand new tanks for having blood/rust in them like I did today??

1. I don't do DIR I practice DWW (Do What Works for me) so I don't have a backup timer.

2. I dive a single, but have heard the 500 psi applies to dubs also.

3. Are you the first owner of the tank? If so I would be having issues with the seller.

In my opinion (not sure about DIR) if you have the real estate just wear it. I wear a computer and bottom timer on my right arm and compass on the left and it feels right. Just like the song...if wearing two bottom timers on my right arm is wrong...I don't wanna be right baby.

I have yet to breath doubles down to 500 psi on a dive but I would think that number would be good. Something to consider if you are doing a couple recreational dives and want to use the dubs twice.

What does owning a brand new tank feel like?

1- I wear both my primary and backup on my right arm - Liquivision Xen as my primary and a old Oceanic Veo as my backup

2 - Yep - 500 PSI for both single tanks and doubles

3 - Rust is pretty common in steel tanks. If it looks like blood as you described it's probably flash rust which can be caused by condensation in a tank that's been sitting around unfilled or not drying a tank fast enough after it's been cleaned. It's really no big deal, but I would take it back to the shop and have them clean it. I'm curious, how did you find the rust? Usually when you buy a new tank from the dive shop they fill it for you.

1) Buddy's arm

2) 400 or 500 psi to account for gauge errors

3) I have several HP steel tanks which have a rusty patina in them which permeates the steel. Its not on the surface and doesn't tumble out (its also not a problem). "Like blood" sounds like a rusty liquid??

ljjames wrote:

Jeremy wrote:Right pocket? Interesting answer! I don't get it though....why not just wear it?

Because i have a fully functional one on my right arm already, and I have more than enough time to get to the one in my pocket out in the event that the primary fails (and if i'm mildly concerned, I'll give my buddy the nod - also so he knows whats up - and he'll cover depth/time till i get back up out of said pocket) Too many big things on my arms get in the way of camera, getting stuff out of pockets, managing valve and/or boom drills.

I don't have very much forearm space, and I even clip off my meg controller Bigger folks can probably wear it all on the arms like MTV bling, but not me...

Thanks Laura. (Wow, you clip off your Meg controller!!?)

I'll probably just wear mine on the right forearm.

Nwbrewer wrote:

Jeremy wrote:1. Which arm do those who "do it right" wear their back up bottom timers on?

2. In singles people generally end a dive with no less than 500psi in their tank. What about doubles? 500psi rule still apply even though you have twice the gas?

3. How often do you have to return brand new tanks for having blood/rust in them like I did today??

1. My buddies right arm

2. Yes. The reason for the 500psi rule is that analog SPG's (and to some degree digital pressure transducers) are least accurate at the extreme ends of their range. (that 500psi might only be 200psi....)

3. Ummm... no.

1. Yeah...that's what I've been doing. The Xen's are nice but I've had mine crap out on me a few times now and decided to just get an Uwatec to back it up.

2. I figured... Thanks

Norris wrote: What does owning a brand new tank feel like?

So far feels like crap!

BillZ wrote:1- I wear both my primary and backup on my right arm - Liquivision Xen as my primary and a old Oceanic Veo as my backup

2 - Yep - 500 PSI for both single tanks and doubles

3 - Rust is pretty common in steel tanks. If it looks like blood as you described it's probably flash rust which can be caused by condensation in a tank that's been sitting around unfilled or not drying a tank fast enough after it's been cleaned. It's really no big deal, but I would take it back to the shop and have them clean it. I'm curious, how did you find the rust? Usually when you buy a new tank from the dive shop they fill it for you.

A fellow Xen diver...no wonder you have a backup!

Found it because I bought two tanks to double up and Mark at 5th D wanted me to assemble them so I could see how they go together. Before we did that though....gave the tanks a quick viz check and that's when we found the gunk. So we sent them back.

I mean....what's the point of buying new tanks if they come with crap in them? More likely rust than blood and probably no big deal...but these were supposed to be new tanks man!!

Jeremy wrote:
A fellow Xen diver...no wonder you have a backup!

Found it because I bought two tanks to double up and Mark at 5th D wanted me to assemble them so I could see how they go together. Before we did that though....gave the tanks a quick viz check and that's when we found the gunk. So we sent them back.

I mean....what's the point of buying new tanks if they come with crap in them? More likely rust than blood and probably no big deal...but these were supposed to be new tanks man!!

The Xen would be a great computer if you didn't actually need to rely on it for depth, bottom time etc.

I agree, new tanks should be rust free and I would take them back and tell the shop to clean them. They should have checked them out before giving them to you. My point was that it's pretty common to have rust in steel tanks, even new ones.

BillZ wrote:

Jeremy wrote: The Xen would be a great computer if you didn't actually need to rely on it for depth, bottom time etc.

You guys make me glad I sold my xen before I had any problems with it...

spatman wrote:You guys make me glad I sold my xen before I had any problems with it...

It's not that the Xen is a bad computer, it's just quirky. It reminds me of a prototype that a bunch of geeky engineers built that wasn't well thought out or tested before being put on the market.

Jeremy wrote:
Thanks Laura. (Wow, you clip off your Meg controller!!?)

I'll probably just wear mine on the right forearm.

The HUD blinking at me and the hardwired shearwater on my right arm gives me all the info I need (deco, O2, etc..), I know where the APECs controller is when its time to change PPO2, and when its clipped off on my chest d-ring, i just reach down and can lift it up into view and push the appropriate buttons... simple as pi.

depends. most if te time backup is my buddy. but sometimes I'll throw one up-arm of primary.

yeah around 500 is bare ass min on recreation dives that I'm at te surface with.. keeping in mind that accounts for my buddy's min-gas portion he/she didn't breathe from my tanks.

on tec dives it's half min gas at a minimum

never had to send it back. sometimes they have some flash rust due to condensation in the tanks during transport and I've had to do a o2 clean cycle or light tumble befire and fixes it right up.

BillZ wrote:

spatman wrote:You guys make me glad I sold my xen before I had any problems with it...

It's not that the Xen is a bad computer, it's just quirky. It reminds me of a prototype that a bunch of geeky engineers built that wasn't well thought out or tested before being put on the market.

That sounds about right...

1.) I have seen peeps put back up bottom timers on the left, right, pocket and not at all. Obviously your buddy is your most reliable depth gauge, but I dive a xen, so I have to be pragmatic, lol. I have messed around with which arm I wear my backup on, and I like having it on my right because if I were to actually need it (which I have)... I want to actually replace my primary. my muscle memory tells me to look at my right for depth/time (and that positioning of the timer makes sense configuration wise). One time I had my xen crap out when my back up was on my left, I found that every time I wanted to check d/t I would first look at my right arm. AND, when I was ascending, I could not check depth while venting my suit/wing.

also... I dont like wearing them side by side. if I wear them side by side and then reach my valves, the backup digs into my forearm. Plus, its just a CF. I prefer to wear my backup 180 degrees from my primary. This saves some arm real estate, and then if I need to switch... BOOM I now have tidied away the broken bottom timer and replaced it with a trusty back up with a simple rotation of the straps.
Side note... dont be a fool like this guy and wear an army of bottom timers. I have this one friend who is so badass she wears three bottom timers.
http://www.yalibnan.com/wp-content/uplo ... ayek-2.jpg

1.5) DISCLAIMER, as it is well understood by the masterful and ever knowledgable "tek" divers floating around this forum, I am merely a parrot with no knowledge, ability or value. So everything I say is automatically bs.

2.) what every one else is saying. OH MY GOT! I AM A PARROT!!!

It's DUE! wrote:I prefer to wear my backup 180 degrees from my primary. This saves some arm real estate, and then if I need to switch... BOOM I now have tidied away the broken bottom timer and replaced it with a trusty back up with a simple rotation of the straps.

Brah! That's an awesome idea! I don't like side by side very much either. I'm going to try this. Thanks

No problem, but just be careful, I don't have many dives below 200'.

Make sure you 1 put on your primary, and then backup with the primary straps inside the backups straps. I found that if I did by do this it would cause the straps to loosen up and sort of awkwardly sit around my arm.

Also, I suggest putting on/ taking off the timers after/before donning your harness because it can be quite challenging to put your arm (which now has the physique of a mace) through the webbing without catching on something like your light cord or long hose. Sometimes I forget to do this though and it all works out any ways.

I tried it today but wasn't digging the mace feel. Going with side by side I guess.

Funny how underwater you can't even see the backup because of how bright the Xen is.