Northwest Dive Club

Wondering how the Waterproof stacks up against the Weezle and if anyone can offer up their opinions or experiences. I've been diving a Waterproof for a while and it seems that the water is getting colder or that dang age factor is kicking in and in either case those longer dives aren't as much fun.

Some undergarments will lose their effectiveness after long use. You could also consider Fourth Element. They have less bulk, making it easier to get in and out of your suit, and are quite warm.

At this time of year I'm comfortable in the one piece Arctic with Drybase and thin wicking base layer.

Keep an eye out for REI Heavyweight Underwear. Once in a while (maybe towards the Fall/Winter), they'll have some polartec or thinsulate underwear that work perfectly as undergarments at 1/5 the cost (~$30 for each top and bottom). You can add a heavyweight base layer or an additional middleweight top for the really cold waters.

Thanks for the replies. I'll take a look at Fourth Element, hadn't considered them. I went the route of REI underwear with my first drysuit and still have two sets of them, though not sure either are the heavyweight that you're referring to, worth checking out as well.

I've used the Fourth Element for years but recently bought a Weezle. I wish I would have started with the Weezle. The dives I've had since using it have been the warmest dives ever! Never tried Waterproof, it's probably not bad, but I bet it doesn't compare to the Weezle. I know the Fourth Element doesn't, it is that much better....


-Mathue

Seaslave wrote:I've used the Fourth Element for years but recently bought a Weezle. I wish I would have started with the Weezle. The dives I've had since using it have been the warmest dives ever! Never tried Waterproof, it's probably not bad, but I bet it doesn't compare to the Weezle. I know the Fourth Element doesn't, it is that much better....


-Mathue

Which Weezle do you have? I have the Fourth Element Arctic which has served me well for the past few years but I'm starting to do 90+ minute dives and even with a mid layer I freeze my ass off. I've been debating between the Extreme and the Extreme Plus - Most folks I talk to say the plus is overkill but I'd like to be as warm as possible.

90m plus, you might just consider a heated vest...

Jeff Pack wrote:90m plus, you might just consider a heated vest...

It's on the wish list but I'd rather try to upgrade my undergarment first than add another piece of gear.

The extreme plus, not overkill and I regularly do 75 to 90min dives. Takes a bunch of lead to sink it but overall safer than a heated vest (I also have heat but its an added complication I don't wear if I don't have to)

I have a 4th Element Halo3D and have been diving it for about 3 years now. its at a point now where its sufficiently worn and its not as warm as t used to be and I have to wear thermal underwear with them to be warm.

on the other hand, my Weezle Extreme (not the plus) is as warm as it was the day I got it.. its water repellant on the surface so when its drizzling, you can wipe off the moisture before doning drysuit.. and you can adjust the temp by squeezing less or more... Its my Go-To undergarment for traveling and summer months diving.

I really love that thing.. So much so that I just ordered a Weezle Extreme Plus from John Rawlings and should be here next week.

Yeah I have found the weezle to be an extremely long lasting undergarment too. Dries super fast, doesn't stink and is washable without it breaking down in the process like thinsulate does. I have two extreme pluses, one for everyday diving and a second one I bought as a backup and almost never need to use. Really the only minus is that it takes more lead than just about any other undergarment to sink (I know since I have used other undies with the exact same drysuits). More lead is the consequence of having so much trapped air and hence being so much warmer.

Amortized over its lifetime (I don't know how long that might be as I have yet to kill a weezle) its going to be a very low cost per dive undergarment.

BillZ wrote:Which Weezle do you have? I have the Fourth Element Arctic which has served me well for the past few years but I'm starting to do 90+ minute dives and even with a mid layer I freeze my ass off. I've been debating between the Extreme and the Extreme Plus - Most folks I talk to say the plus is overkill but I'd like to be as warm as possible.

I have the Extreme. I have a decent layer of "natural insulation", so I felt the Plus was not needed at this time. So far, I'm happy with my decision!


-Mathue

BillZ wrote:

Jeff Pack wrote:90m plus, you might just consider a heated vest...

It's on the wish list but I'd rather try to upgrade my undergarment first than add another piece of gear.

Depends on your level of biopreen. After I lost all my weight, I was torn between the issues with lofting undergarments, versus adding non lofting insulation, or going with a heated vest.

I wound having to both add additional insulation AND a heated vest. I dont care for the lofting undergarments because of the air retention.

I can do a 2 hour dive now without my vest, but turning on the vest makes it a much more comfortable 2 hour dive.

I prefer the less lofty undergarments because I don't like carrying the extra weight and use just enough air inside my suit to help with trim. That said, when diving in colder water (42 to 46 deg), I switch to the SubX salopette with a long sleeve Arctic top underneath. I also use Argon with the SubX. That combination has kept me warm up in Canada in February.

One thing about Argon - it takes longer to vent from the suit when ascending, to I need to plan ahead a bit more.

GearHead wrote: One thing about Argon - it takes longer to vent from the suit when ascending, to I need to plan ahead a bit more.

I'm not sure where you got this idea from...

I agree, my experience with Argon is the opposite and I actually prefer to use that gas for my suit over air.

deepbludvr wrote:I agree, my experience with Argon is the opposite and I actually prefer to use that gas for my suit over air.

There is no physiochemical reason for a difference in venting. The holes in an exhaust valve are ginormous compared to the miniscule difference in gas viscosity. Like hundreds of orders of magnitude different.

Of course if you are cold and/or chilled and put more gas in your suit, it will take longer to vent.

Agree, what I really meant to say is that I don't see any difference in venting my suit between air and argon. I do see a difference in buoyancy when using argon and that is one of the reasons I like using that gas.

Just an empirical observation about Argon seeming to vent slowly. No science behind it. It also seems to inflate more slowly as well. A few of us made the same observation the last time we were on the Nautilus Swell.

Most argon regs are set at a lower IP, to reduce the pressure at the suit fitting. So yes they fill more slowly than a suit hose coming off your breathing reg with its higher IP. This is irrespective of the gas used.

Something else to consider too is feet and head protection. The WaterProof 10/5 was a big improvement in thermal protection, as were some 5mm neoprene socks, and I added some REI expedition weight Merino Wool Socks.

Another vote for Weezle from Rawlings. I have both the extreme and the plus in fullsuits as well as a 2-piece. The extreme is what I use the most but I do get cold easily. I want to use the plus but it's literally too thick. The kind people at Weezle told me to put it in the dryer with some tennis balls to flatten it down. Mel's is well packed down and looks perfect on her. So I'll give the tennis balls a try.

Tangfish wrote:Another vote for Weezle from Rawlings. I have both the extreme and the plus in fullsuits as well as a 2-piece. The extreme is what I use the most but I do get cold easily. I want to use the plus but it's literally too thick. The kind people at Weezle told me to put it in the dryer with some tennis balls to flatten it down. Mel's is well packed down and looks perfect on her. So I'll give the tennis balls a try.

Out of curiosity, have you tried the vacuum sealed clothing bags to compress it more? That, or heard of it?

I met up with John Rawlings today for lunch and besides the great lunch conversations that I as bummed had to end, I also got my Weezle Extreme Plus from John!

I'll be diving it tomorrow morning before work and report back

I dive a weezel extreme. And yes you need to add weight and inflate to make yourself warm. It is a lofting undergarment so proper sizing is critical. If the weezel is too big you risk clogging the exhaust vent and slowing down drysuit venting. I know from experience

Also I find once dives go over 1.5 hours a heated vest is a must. In the 2 - 3 hour range your fooling yourself if you think you can stay warm without a heated vest. If you plan longer dives, a heated vest is a must. Get your checkbook out and start writing.

Finally, invest in a good fitting and thicker hood such as the waterproof H1 5/10. It's by far the best bang for the buck in the "off the shelf" hood on the market. The only hood better than the H1 5/10 is a custom made/fitted 10 or 12 mm hood at $150 plus. Remember 20 percent of all heat lost is via the head. So a good, thick, well fitting hood will do you well.