Free Fixer-Upper Dive Boat to Good Home

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:26 am

You are welcome to borrow my pressure washer if you don't have one. The canvas might be better off removed and washer at a commercial laundry. Assuming the engine isn't frozen.

BillZ · Post by **BillZ** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:45 pm

+1 On what Richard said - Pressure washing canvas will remove any water repellent and screw up the canvas fibers.

Before you try to fire it up:
- Take the distributor cap off and turn it over to see if the engine is free

-Drain the oil to see if there is any water in it. If the oil is tan or there is water in the top of the pan you could have a heat exchanger/manifold issue. Replace the oil.

- Completely drain the fuel tank - If it's been sitting awhile the gas that's in it is bad and has turned to lacquer. You'll also want to flush out the fuel lines. If you have a small outboard tank you could plumb the fuel line to the small tank instead.
* A quick note on fuel tanks - These older boats had fiberglass tanks which are not compatible with E10 gas. You'll probably need to rip out the floor boards and replace the tank with a plastic one.

- You'll probably need to take the carburetor off and clean it- Again, if it's been sitting awhile the gas has turned to sludge.

- Check and see if your getting spark - If not you'll probably need to replace the points/distributor cap/wires.

- Put the distributor cap on, hook up the rabbit ears and fire it up.

dwashbur · Post by **dwashbur** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:17 pm

Let me reiterate that the ONLY reason I gave this up is because my health went south. I was working on it and had plans for it and was on my way to making them happen, but wasn't physically able to finish the job. And from what I've seen of the man who took it, he knows what he's doing and what he's getting into. I wouldn't be surprised if he has it going again in pretty short order.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:54 pm

BillZ wrote:
-Drain the oil to see if there is any water in it. If the oil is tan or there is water in the top of the pan you could have a heat exchanger/manifold issue. Replace the oil.

Assuming its not raw water cooled in the first place.

Assuming it was running anytime in the last decade and the tanks aren't leaking I would assume the resin in the tanks is E10 compatible. Prophylactically ripping out the tanks is not something I would invest time/money in. I would try to get all the old gas out and into a lawn mower or something like that. Perhaps mixing it with some fresher gas to get the mower to start. Absent that you might have to call around to find a disposal place.

cofford · Post by **cofford** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:02 pm

bschnabel · Post by **bschnabel** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:27 pm

Finally had a chance to get to work on it today, pulled the plugs out last weekend, but didn't have the correct socket to try and crank the engine over. Initial inspection didn't look too promising. A pressure washer and several hours did her wonders. Unfortunately the engine is completely frozen, explains why the starter was listed as an item to be replaced. The back 3 plugs on the starboard side were rusty on the inside. Think I am going to have to pass this one to the next person. Free to anyone here who wants it, or I will post it up on craigslist for a few hundred (will give away), figure it might be easier to sell than to give away on there.

This boat needs the following:
Engine rebuild
Electrical gone through (simple wiring, but it is a mess)
Starter, starter was still moving but assuming the gears are stripped due to the engine seized up
Alternator is corroded, not sure if working or not
Steering Cable

Good to have
New Seats
New Cover, threads are brittle and pull apart somewhat easily
Interior wood replaced and other minor cosmetics

If no takers, I will continue to poke around on the engine and see if I can't get it to break free, see what kind of snake oil I can come up with to get the rust broken up. I am sure the compression is going to be bad on the starboard side cylinders. Port side the plugs looked brand new!

GearHead · Post by **GearHead** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:56 pm

Looks like a Ford engine block? It will definitely need to be pulled out of the hull, disassembled, have the cylinders honed, rings and all gaskets replaced. For starters.

bschnabel · Post by **bschnabel** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:39 am

Yeah it is a Ford 302. Our plan going in was if the engine turned and had good compression we would start spending money on the boat, if it was frozen.... Well not worth the cost to rebuild.

Desert Diver · Post by **Desert Diver** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:04 am

I would put some ATF in the cylinders and try to work them loose. It may run fine if the water didn't come from a crack.

GearHead · Post by **GearHead** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:49 am

I might try Marvel Mystery Oil to penetrate through the rust before using ATF (GM style automatic transmission fluid). However, there's a good chance the ring gear will need to be replaced due to the starter motor problem.

Thing is though... I've been stranded on the water in a friend's boat that hadn't been properly maintained. It's a lot easier to find a tow on a lake rather than somewhere out in the sound. I wouldn't feel confident unless I pulled the engine and tore it down.

dwashbur · Post by **dwashbur** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:54 am

The starter has definitely had it. Pieces of it fell off in my hand when I touched it, and when I tried to take the wire loose the entire shank was turning.

As far as the engine, I hope I was as straight with you as possible about that. It may still pop loose, because as far as I know, there weren't any real structural problems with it, such as cracks, etc. But I don't know. I hope you can make it go.

xBabyJesus · Post by **xBabyJesus** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:45 am

Anybody got a spare engine sitting around?

All mine are GM.

I would just pull the head on that side and see what's actually what with those cylinders. Is it possible moisture came in the exhaust valve(s)? If they're truly rusted, that motor is junk. Not even worth honing. Here's a 302 for $250:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/4901697977.html

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:32 am

Hopefully you've double checked that its not in gear...

bschnabel · Post by **bschnabel** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:22 am

Plan is to dig deep into it this weekend (weather permitting), want to get the heads off and see what is going on. Not as easy as you would think, lot of stuck bolts and confined spaces... PB Blaster will be used in mass quantities to help remove bolts, as the MMO did not help.

I have seen several 302 blocks on craigslist, however not just any 302 will work for marine application. If it is an old truck block it may work, but car blocks I have heard will not hold up to the stresses put on a marine engine. We are weighing our options about getting this thing going.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:05 pm

bschnabel wrote: I have seen several 302 blocks on craigslist, however not just any 302 will work for marine application. If it is an old truck block it may work, but car blocks I have heard will not hold up to the stresses put on a marine engine. We are weighing our options about getting this thing going.

Its a pretty simple Ford block, there's nothing "truck" about it. Was used in plenty of Mustangs back in the day and remains quite popular in muscle car rebuilds. You should be able to find one out of an Explorer (I think). I am assuming the 4" bore version is what's in there. Do you have the block codes?

If you are concerned about something blowing up with the weight of dive gear (a valid concern), I would be more worried about the condition of the I/O. Perhaps a prop reduction might be in order to try and reduce some stress on that end.

xBabyJesus · Post by **xBabyJesus** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:13 am

Agree ^^ The trucks typically just had a different cam (less HP, more torque at low RPM). Boat applications actually like RPM so the car cams are not a problem but either will be fine. Boat motors were more likely to be balanced and blueprinted to sustain higher RPMs for longer times, but as long as you keep the RPMs down around 3000 sustained you should be ok with ANY 302.

GearHead · Post by **GearHead** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:10 am

One thing to bear in mind is that marine applications are far more stressful on the engine than automotive applications. When you're in a boat, you think very little of running near flat out when you want to get to a site quickly, or at the end of the day when you just want to get back to shore. This is equivalent to towing a heavy trailer over a steep mountain pass while maintaining 65 mph. It's not uncommon to rebuild boat engines every few seasons.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:28 am

GearHead wrote:It's not uncommon to rebuild boat engines every few seasons.

Gas engines like this one usually go a few thousand hours between rebuilds (unless you have even more money to burn).

Diesel about the same nowadays but that's because people are pushing them harder, they are ever higher HP in ligheter weight aluminum blocks etc. 1970s and 80s era diesels are usually much lower HP, higher weight affairs that go 6 to 12 thousand hours between rebuilds.

bschnabel · Post by **bschnabel** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:04 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
bschnabel wrote: I have seen several 302 blocks on craigslist, however not just any 302 will work for marine application. If it is an old truck block it may work, but car blocks I have heard will not hold up to the stresses put on a marine engine. We are weighing our options about getting this thing going.
Its a pretty simple Ford block, there's nothing "truck" about it. Was used in plenty of Mustangs back in the day and remains quite popular in muscle car rebuilds. You should be able to find one out of an Explorer (I think). I am assuming the 4" bore version is what's in there. Do you have the block codes?

If you are concerned about something blowing up with the weight of dive gear (a valid concern), I would be more worried about the condition of the I/O. Perhaps a prop reduction might be in order to try and reduce some stress on that end.

I have been reading on a lot of boat forums that the casting material is different between truck and car blocks. Trucks are made to run higher duty cycles (sustain 3-4k rpm). And yes cams, pistons, crank, rods... are all a little different. Most trucks came with more forged components same as marine, the car engines typically do not have forged internals. Beyond that the freeze plugs need to be changed as well as the stupid expensive exhaust manifolds.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:16 pm

bschnabel wrote:
I have been reading on a lot of boat forums that the casting material is different between truck and car blocks. Trucks are made to run higher duty cycles (sustain 3-4k rpm). And yes cams, pistons, crank, rods... are all a little different. Most trucks came with more forged components same as marine, the car engines typically do not have forged internals. Beyond that the freeze plugs need to be changed as well as the stupid expensive exhaust manifolds.

If that's actually a 302 there's no truck version. Its (originally) a mustang V-8. Some of the castings are better than others and there are different bores. But who cares, the boat is old. ANY new block in there will probably outlast that I/O by a decade.

renoun · Post by **renoun** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:40 pm

I think that is defiantly a case of not letting perfect be the enemy of good enough. Just make sure that you have appropriate marine components like a spark arrester on the air intake, marine starter, marine alternator, etc. so you don't blow anything up.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:25 pm

curious if you've made any progress?

bschnabel · Post by **bschnabel** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:49 pm

Made a lot of progress... Boat is on to a new owner! lol. If it werent for the OMC I/O setup I would have rebuilt. Because it was an OMC setup it did not make sense to dump that much money into a boat that old. Search continues...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:55 pm

Personally I like inflatables, the load carrying capacity for any given size is astounding. Usually some reasonable deals on CL if you check them out carefully. Lots of crap there too.

Northwest Dive Club