Why do divers dive solo for a recreational dive?

[BASSMAN]

This continues to eat away at my personal logic about diving.
I know there is a class / training available to learn skills to dive solo.
How many solo divers actually take the time / $$ to get this training?
Maybe in a professional kind of diving or even professional photography.
But I Just have the most difficult time understanding why in a recreational aspect, Why?

For me,a large part of the recreational part is, meeting and diving with other divers!

I just don't see the resoning, even if it's just a shallow dive. Go snorkling!


Input?

[Grateful Diver]

I solo dive from time to time ... and I don't think solo diving is really the issue. The issue is people taking it too casually, and not being properly prepared for it. Solo diving's all about your ability to be mentally as well as physically prepared to deal with the additional risks involved.

It's not even a matter of training ... I've dived with a few people who have taken the SDI solo class and who (to my concern) still shouldn't be solo diving. Solo training ... just like all other scuba training ... is only as good as the effort that both the instructor and the student put into it.

And even a good class will only take you so far. Diving's done in an environment that we were never designed for ... we have to adapt to it in order to do anything comfortably, and that takes practice. How many of you practice your basic skills regularly? I'd say the majority of the people I've ever had in my AOW classes have never even done an air share or mask removal after they were required to do it (on their knees in very controlled conditions) during their OW class. Do you think these folks are ready to handle an emergency? I don't ... not even with a dive buddy, much less on their own. Yet you'll find them out there ... diving solo ... with a confidence borne of ignorance and/or denial about their ability to take care of themselves.

Now extend that to a real emergency ... one where things don't happen when you expect them to, or in a controlled environment. Would you be able to keep your cool if you suddenly lost your air supply or your sight while diving alone? Hell, I've seen so-called "experienced" divers panic and bolt to the surface because they got buzzed by a sea lion. If you've decided to solo dive, you'd better be able to deal with pretty much anything calmly and rationally ... you'd better have both the equipment and demeanor to handle it underwater ... because your life literally depends on it. And yet, without actually facing a real emergency, how would you know whether you can do it or not?

That's the question you really need to consider before going it solo.

I started a thread on ScubaBoard on this topic ... and it's turned into an excellent discussion (a rarity these days on that forum). For those who are interested in this discussion, I recommend you read it ...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic- ... -dive.html

The way diving is currently structured, marketed, and taught, diving with a buddy isn't any safer than diving alone ... many dive buddies are more a liability than anything else, because they never really learned how to be a dive buddy. In a case like that, even if you have a dive buddy, you're basically diving alone. Best to just stop kidding yourself and either be really selective about who you dive with or be prepared every time you go down to dive solo ... because that may be what you're doing whether you realize it or not.

Think back on all the diving accidents you know about locally. How many of those divers had a buddy? How many started their dive with a buddy, but got separated and died? How many were solo?

I think you'll come to realize that the majority of those people were not solo divers ... they were either diving the buddy system poorly, or making bad decisions.

Maybe that should tell you something about where the problem really lies ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

Bob said it better than I could have. There's nothing wrong with solo diving for those who are trained and prepared for it. I've only done a couple of solo dives, but they remain some of my best dives, ever. I love the camaraderie of diving with my buddies, but there's something about the total self-reliance of diving solo that's hard to compare to anything else.

[mattwave]

I solo dive from time to time ...


The way diving is currently structured, marketed, and taught, diving with a buddy isn't any safer than diving alone ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I am shocked and appalled, you are a respected NAUI instructor who mentors many inexperienced divers.

Josh was a good friend and should have never been solo diving as the same with many other needless diving accidents which the divers were solo. The only diver I have ever known to survive from serious trouble on CCR, was because he was diving with a buddy, period.

I will repeat it on this forum once again, I as any dive professional owes it to the community to never solo dive and always discourage it. It is weak not to qualify a dive buddy as a safe partner, and ignorant to consider yourself capable of self-rescue.

I admit I have let down my guard on recent occasions, softening my discouraging words against solo diving, I am going to back to opposing it at all costs.

[Marc]

If I recall, didn't you lose someone on a scooter? A newby to sccoters? Search for how long? Surface, wait for buddy to appear? That is what I learned in my rescue class taught by a dive professional. Not following the protocols taught by NAUI rescue standards and finishing the dive could be considered a solo dive.

Bob can, and I am quite sure he will, defend himself, but you shouldn't throw stones from a glass house.

[mattwave]

no someone lost me, and we both made mistakes, and we both learned.

is that what you were looking for?

[Marc]

Not looking for anything, just stating that calling someone out on professionalism when you violate your own training standards is questionable.

[mattwave]

Ok Marc,

Violating my training standards?

#1 and #2 go for a recreational DPV dive, I am #2 and stop for a minute and #1 keeps going.
The DPV course I took instructs in a lost buddy scenario to retrace your steps, as I did. #1 had not taken a class and immediately headed for the surface. Of course with bad vis and the whir of #1's DPV still being heard, it was a confusing scenario. #1 surfaces, spots bubbles moving that could have been #2 or not, #1 calls 911 for good measure, as #2 surfaces.

Where is the violation?

Speaking of a Violation of NAUI standards, just so we are clear, it is against all that NAUI's credo stands for to promote diving without a buddy.

I have nothing against Bob, I had no idea he supports solo diving, you seem to have something against me?

Marc?

[Grateful Diver]

I am shocked and appalled, you are a respected NAUI instructor who mentors many inexperienced divers.

... and this means ... what?

Josh was a good friend and should have never been solo diving as the same with many other needless diving accidents which the divers were solo. The only diver I have ever known to survive from serious trouble on CCR, was because he was diving with a buddy, period.

OK ... so how do you explain Sheryl Marshall? Ben Giard? Chad Georgean? Wayne Sargent? And several others who've died in Puget Sound over the past few years DESPITE the fact that they had buddies with them when they died?

Solo diving isn't what killed this person ... although I'm willing to believe that solo diving without proper preparation contributed to the outcome of his accident.

I will repeat it on this forum once again, I as any dive professional owes it to the community to never solo dive and always discourage it.

OK ... that's your position. I respect it (something you continually refuse to offer to me in return). Now perhaps you can explain to the audience why you believe as you do ... anyone with a strongly held belief in anything should be able to explain their views, after all. Rather than come in here all self-righteous, it might be better to discuss ... as a professional ... why you feel that way.

And it might also be helpful for you to recognize that other dive professionals may legitimately hold a different view than you do without being either ignorant or irresponsible.

It is weak not to qualify a dive buddy as a safe partner, and ignorant to consider yourself capable of self-rescue.

What makes you think that the majority of the people who choose to dive solo don't have good buddy skills or capable of self-rescue? I'd say that the responsible ones are way ahead of the curve on both of those skills.

I admit I have let down my guard on recent occasions, softening my discouraging words against solo diving, I am going to back to opposing it at all costs.

And do you honestly think that telling people to "just say no" is going to change anybody's mind? Look how well it worked when Nancy Reagan tried that approach.

Would you really rather have people die from ignorance? Wouldn't it be better to discuss the subject with them frankly, and trust that they have enough intelligence to make up their own mind how much risk they're willing to assume?

First off, from what I've read ... including Joshua's fiance's account ... you're right. He shouldn't have been solo diving. That doesn't make solo diving inherently dangerous ... it makes doing it without proper experience, equipment, and knowledge dangerous. Maybe a frank discussion of the FACTS of solo diving might have led Joshua to make a different decision, rather than just pretending it's a bad thing and not discussing it at all.

I prefer being honest with people, Matt. If I saw someone solo diving who I think doesn't have the skills to do it safely, I'd certainly tell them so ... I have, in fact. It should come as a surprise to no one that I'd speak my mind freely on that subject.

But if someone's got their mind set on doing it, I think a far better approach is to tell them what they need to know in order to reduce their risks as much as possible. Just telling them it's dangerous and they shouldn't do it won't achieve a thing. In some cases, it'll just encourage them to reach ... in total ignorance ... for the "forbidden fruit".

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Marc]

I recall it being a significant amount of time before you surfaced..... more than it seems would be appropriate. standards are search for how long, then surface?

It was a long time before you surfaced after losing the other diver.

Ok Marc,

Violating my training standards?

#1 and #2 go for a recreational DPV dive, I am #2 and stop for a minute and #1 keeps going.
The DPV course I took instructs in a lost buddy scenario to retrace your steps, as I did. #1 had not taken a class and immediately headed for the surface. Of course with bad vis and the whir of #1's DPV still being heard, it was a confusing scenario. #1 surfaces, spots bubbles moving that could have been #2 or not, #1 calls 911 for good measure, as #2 surfaces.

Where is the violation?

Speaking of a Violation of NAUI standards, just so we are clear, it is against all that NAUI's credo stands for to promote diving without a buddy.

I have nothing against Bob, I had no idea he supports solo diving, you seem to have something against me?

Marc?

[Grateful Diver]

Speaking of a Violation of NAUI standards, just so we are clear, it is against all that NAUI's credo stands for to promote diving without a buddy.

Just so we are clear ... I have never, in a class or to either a current or former student ... advocated solo diving. In fact, I've never advocated solo diving to anyone at all. I perceive it as a personal decision.

I see my role in the dive community as one of educator ... not enforcer of agency beliefs. I do what I can to help people dive safely ... and in that respect I clearly define that term differently than you do.

Ignorance is NOT bliss ... in diving, it can get you killed.

I have nothing against Bob, I had no idea he supports solo diving, you seem to have something against me?

Just so we are clear, Matt ... yes you do.

You've badmouthed me in your shop, to former students of mine. You perceive me as a "competitor", and treat me just as you do all your other perceived competitors.

You chose your words carefully here ... to make it clear to everyone reading this board that you think I'm unprofessional.

I'd never do that to you, Matt ... I think it sucks that you do it to me.

It's not the first time ... so I'm not surprised.

Respect works both ways ... I think that's what Marc's trying to tell you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[LCF]

All three of you, knock it off! Letting tempers flare at one another is not going to provide any useful content to this thread.

Each of us is entitled to make his own decision about solo diving. I do not think anyone can make a valid argument that you do not assume additional risk by diving alone. Severe entanglements or injuries or health problems may be far more difficult (or impossible) to manage without help. In addition, brain malfunctions -- Getting lost, getting scared -- are harder to manage by yourself.

But everyone who dives assumes risk. Just going underwater is risking drowning, however low that risk may be under normal conditions. And each of us will decide on a threshold where risk is no longer acceptable, or a level of onerousness related to risk mitigation that we don't think is worth it.

I have definitely dived with buddies who were unlikely to be ANY help to me in an emergency. I conduct those dives to minimize my risk -- I bring my own redundancy and keep the dives very shallow and in areas I know well. I would imagine that a lot of solo divers do something similar. But my best risk mitigation strategy is to dive with other well-trained and disciplined divers, who I have a reasonable expectation WOULD be able to help me out of a jam, and also make sure my own skills are as good as I can make them, and my equipment in as good shape as I can make IT, so that I'm as unlikely as possible to need any help.

People who solo dive say they do it for a variety of reasons -- Because they figure they're solo most of the time with instabuddies, anyway; because they like the peace of being alone and not having to watch for anyone else; because they can rarely find another diver at the times they can dive; because they're heavy-duty photographers and don't want to worry about boring a buddy with 20 minutes of trying to get just the perfect shot. They're all good reasons, so long as the diver is willing to assume the additional risk, and is educated enough to KNOW what that risk is. And even then, the person who dives solo and gets into trouble and has to be rescued by a stranger has pretty majorly impacted the life of the person who tries to rescue them, particularly if that rescue is unsuccessful.

[Joshua Smith]

*Sigh*- just a request, here everybody- let's try and play nice. If this thread degenerates, I'll delete it. Solo diving is an emotional topic, for a variety of reasons. This is exacerbated by the recent death. Any PERSONAL issues between people here should be dealt with face to face- the internet makes these discussions much worse.

As far as solo diving goes, I will never do it on my rebreather, but I agree with Bob on this one- it's a personal choice, and people will continue to do it. I hope they try and get the training and equipment to do so safely.

[Marc]

I'll speak my mind when I like, thank you. I have yet to get angry, I am simply calling for introspection before commenting.

All three of you, knock it off! Letting tempers flare at one another is not going to provide any useful content to this thread.

Each of us is entitled to make his own decision about solo diving. I do not think anyone can make a valid argument that you do not assume additional risk by diving alone. Severe entanglements or injuries or health problems may be far more difficult (or impossible) to manage without help. In addition, brain malfunctions -- Getting lost, getting scared -- are harder to manage by yourself.

But everyone who dives assumes risk. Just going underwater is risking drowning, however low that risk may be under normal conditions. And each of us will decide on a threshold where risk is no longer acceptable, or a level of onerousness related to risk mitigation that we don't think is worth it.

I have definitely dived with buddies who were unlikely to be ANY help to me in an emergency. I conduct those dives to minimize my risk -- I bring my own redundancy and keep the dives very shallow and in areas I know well. I would imagine that a lot of solo divers do something similar. But my best risk mitigation strategy is to dive with other well-trained and disciplined divers, who I have a reasonable expectation WOULD be able to help me out of a jam, and also make sure my own skills are as good as I can make them, and my equipment in as good shape as I can make IT, so that I'm as unlikely as possible to need any help.

People who solo dive say they do it for a variety of reasons -- Because they figure they're solo most of the time with instabuddies, anyway; because they like the peace of being alone and not having to watch for anyone else; because they can rarely find another diver at the times they can dive; because they're heavy-duty photographers and don't want to worry about boring a buddy with 20 minutes of trying to get just the perfect shot. They're all good reasons, so long as the diver is willing to assume the additional risk, and is educated enough to KNOW what that risk is. And even then, the person who dives solo and gets into trouble and has to be rescued by a stranger has pretty majorly impacted the life of the person who tries to rescue them, particularly if that rescue is unsuccessful.

[Dmitchell]

This continues to eat away at my personal logic about diving.
I know there is a class / training available to learn skills to dive solo.
How many solo divers actually take the time / $$ to get this training?
Maybe in a professional kind of diving or even professional photography.
But I Just have the most difficult time understanding why in a recreational aspect, Why?

For me,a large part of the recreational part is, meeting and diving with other divers!

I just don't see the resoning, even if it's just a shallow dive. Go snorkling!


Input?

Back to the original post. Even snorkeling or "freediving" is properly done with a buddy.

I've stated my position on solo diving before and won't rehash that.

But, I can't understand why someone would leave their fiancee on the beach to dive solo. There's always another day for diving (like when you can find a buddy) and there's nothing at Cove 2 worth dying for. What was so important about doing this dive that he chose to dive rather than take her to dinner and a movie.

We had a diver die here in Juneau last summer. The guy got certified in Hawaii on vacation then collected his gear over about a year. For his first dive in Alaska, he decides to solo dive (in a wet suit) out in front of his house to check his mooring. 2 days later when someone missed him he was found on the bottom near his mooring.

Folks, there ain't no scuba police. Nobody is going to stop you if you decide to solo dive. But before you do take a couple minutes and think about the repercussions if you don't come back.

Dave

[Zen Diver]

All three of you, knock it off! Letting tempers flare at one another is not going to provide any useful content to this thread..

Agree!

And even then, the person who dives solo and gets into trouble and has to be rescued by a stranger has pretty majorly impacted the life of the person who tries to rescue them, particularly if that rescue is unsuccessful.

No more so than a rescued diver who was with a buddy, particularly if that rescue is unsuccessful.

-Valerie

[CaptnJack]

Well this was fun.

Personally I don't understand the appeal of solo, mostly cause I can't stand my own company for beers afterwards.

[Grateful Diver]

All three of you, knock it off! Letting tempers flare at one another is not going to provide any useful content to this thread.

Making disparaging remarks about my professionalism has nothing to do with the topic of this thread ... he can badmouth me all he wants in his shop, but I'm tired of him doing it on the Internet. It ain't the first time it's happened ... there's no excuse for it ... and I ain't putting up with it.

I'll let it drop when Matt concedes it was an inappropriate comment and apologizes.

And even then, the person who dives solo and gets into trouble and has to be rescued by a stranger has pretty majorly impacted the life of the person who tries to rescue them, particularly if that rescue is unsuccessful.

That's a straw man argument in this case ... because more often than not, even when someone's diving with a buddy, it's not their buddy who rescues them ... or recovers their body.

Who rescued Sheryl Marshall? Who rescued Wayne Sargent? Who rescued Ben Giard? Who rescued Chad? Hell ... who rescued Zak Jones?

All of those people were diving with dive buddies who couldn't ... or didn't ... help them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Diver_C]

So what's the best new beer someone has tried in 2008?

[lamont]

I've done two solo dives. At the time I thought I was more experienced that I was (50 dives), and because of the taboo against solo diving I wanted to test it to see how it worked. And I did those dives on single tanks at EUP with no redundant gas. Pretty stupid, but most divers wind up doing something like that in their careers.

The appeal of solo diving wore off pretty quick for me. It was a little freaky in a cool, exciting way to be down there facing the ling cod and cabezon alone, but I was done with that experience after the second dive.

I think it was dumb to be doing that as relatively inexperienced as I was and without a redundant gas supply. I think that focusing on "solo" is missing that point, though, that its carrying insufficient gas and going OOG that is killing divers. We're not seeing experienced divers with adequate gas dying while solo, we're seeing relatively inexperienced divers with insufficient gas reserves dying while solo (and relatively inexperienced divers with insufficient gas reserves dying while not solo, too).

If you got all the divers in puget sound together to simply stop diving solo I don't think that would produce the same reduction in the fatality rate as if you managed to get them to stop running out of gas.

[mattwave]

Let's get one thing out in the open, I spent an afternoon at Harborview which ended in me saying goodbye to a blanket covered buddy. If people want to advocate solo diving on this forum, then I should have every right to be shocked and appalled. If at best I save someone's life by making them rethink solo diving and at worse ruffle some feathers, so be it.

The only post I regret is the vague summary of that DPV dive where mistakes were made by both parties, but my summary might have made it seem that the other diver was more at fault. We were both at fault for leaving an important variable out of the dive plan briefing.

No NAUI instructor from NWSD will continue to Instruct throught NWSD if they either practice or preach solo diving, take it or leave it.

[Grateful Diver]

If you got all the divers in puget sound together to simply stop diving solo I don't think that would produce the same reduction in the fatality rate as if you managed to get them to stop running out of gas.

At last ... thank you ... this moves much closer to the pulse of the problem.

It's not just gas management ... although that's major. It's why I go around giving seminars for free ... in the hope that it'll help someone keep from making that stupid, fatal mistake.

But there's more to it than that. All the major agencies promote diving with a buddy ... but HOW MANY of them actually provide, in their student materials, the knowledge of how to do it? PADI doesn't. NAUI doesn't. SSI doesn't. YMCA doesn't ... and those are just the ones I know about from having read their student materials and either taught or DM'ed Open Water classes for. Sure, there are some instructors who do a great job of teaching buddy skills ... but they're doing it beyond what's in the instructional materials provided by their agency.

It's time to move beyond slogans and stop looking at diving from a MARKETING perspective. Diving safety isn't about selling more classes ... it's about providing people with knowledge and skills.

I firmly believe that if you do that, you'll cut down on the accidents and fatalities ... because nobody wants to die.

To those of you who state that you'll never dive solo ... I respect your decision. But please understand that just diving with a buddy isn't a panacea ... you still have to understand that there's more to being a good dive buddy than just getting in the water together ... and being in the proximity of another person won't necessarily make you any safer than being alone. There has to be a mental approach to planning, preparing, and conducting your dive that recognizes the risks and makes sure that both you and your buddy have the wherewithal to mitigate them.

If you don't have that, you might as well be alone ... because for all intents and purposes, you ARE diving solo ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Grateful Diver]

Let's get one thing out in the open, I spent an afternoon at Harborview which ended in me saying goodbye to a blanket covered buddy. If people want to advocate solo diving on this forum, then I should have every right to be shocked and appalled. If at best I save someone's life by making them rethink solo diving and at worse ruffle some feathers, so be it.

The only post I regret is the vague summary of that DPV dive where mistakes were made by both parties, but my summary might have made it seem that the other diver was more at fault. We were both at fault for leaving an important variable out of the dive plan briefing.

No NAUI instructor from NWSD will continue to Instruct throught NWSD if they either practice or preach solo diving, take it or leave it.

... and did your hard line stance prevent your friend from diving solo? Do you honestly believe it could have?

Did he even have enough information to know that you're never supposed to go in the water alone without a redundant gas supply?

Could all of the ascents and descents his fiance described in her post have led to or contributed to his distress?

Was it solo diving that killed him? Or ignorance?

I refuse to let my friends die of the latter ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spatman]

Let's get one thing out in the open, I spent an afternoon at Harborview which ended in me saying goodbye to a blanket covered buddy. If people want to advocate solo diving on this forum, then I should have every right to be shocked and appalled. If at best I save someone's life by making them rethink solo diving and at worse ruffle some feathers, so be it.

matt -
i don't think it's anyone's intention to ignore or gloss over that you are grieving for someone you care about. i think most people know what it's like to experience a loss like that, and are empathetic to your situation.

in general -
i am a new diver, and i am very interested to hear differing opinions about everything diving related. i recognize that these are opinions, and everyone has a right to their own. i will listen to what's been said and eventually form my own educated opinions.

i also have to agree that sniping really isn't constructive and that these attacks from all parties involved should be done privately over email. when mods threaten to delete threads like this, it has the potential to remove valuable resources for newbies like me, and any other diver interested in the subject being discussed.

my 2psi.

[lamont]

But there's more to it than that. All the major agencies promote diving with a buddy ... but HOW MANY of them actually provide, in their student materials, the knowledge of how to do it? PADI doesn't. NAUI doesn't. SSI doesn't. YMCA doesn't ... and those are just the ones I know about from having read their student materials and either taught or DM'ed Open Water classes for. Sure, there are some instructors who do a great job of teaching buddy skills ... but they're doing it beyond what's in the instructional materials provided by their agency.

Don't have to convince me, I went from PADI to GUE for a reason...

I also think that going on a crusade against solo diving will inevitably backfire because some people enjoy solo diving, and some people get attracted by the taboo which results. Going on a crusade against going out of gas is something that pretty much every diver out there can get behind. I haven't met a diver yet who has decided to drain their tanks just to find out what its all about and people on the internet don't usually defend running OOG as a practice...