Northwest Dive Club

After 230+ dives I tried an experiment last week while I was diving at Three Tree.

I dumped the air out of my BC, dropped for my dive, and didn't touch the BC inflator button until the end of the dive. That's right, I used my dry suit exclusively for buoyancy control for the entire dive, a first for me. I ended up doing my last 3 dives that way just as an experiment. I'm glad I did, it was fun!

Like many other folks on the board, previously I only added enough air to my dry suit to offset squeeze, and just used my BC for buoyancy control. Not sure why I had never tried the other way before, but I hadn't. For some reason I thought I wouldn't like it (fear of venting the suit? feeling like the michelin man? who knows?) but it was actually pretty neat.

The Bubble
It was a bit strange, but cool at the same time. Once I got used to the bigger air bubble in my suit it was actually a bit easier to maintain proper trim than with just the BC. A slight change in body position moved me the direction I wanted to go.

Floaty Feet
A couple of times I felt a bit more air than normal go to my feet. Other than making my fins feel a bit loose on my feet it was easily dealt with and did not cause me a problem. I was hovering head down quite a few times to take pictures and managed it without too much trouble.

Venting
I actually found it a bit too easy to vent air from the suit at depth, and had to either tighten the valve a bit and or be extra careful with my positioning. This too was easy to adjust to after a dive or two.

The Best Part
The best thing by far about using my suit alone for buoyancy was that I noticed a marked increase in warmth. The extra air increased the insulating properties of my undergarment and I was much warmer than I have been before.

All in all, it was a fun experiment, and something that I will definitely do more, especially during these colder months of diving.

After two years of working very hard at minimizing air in the suit, I did three weekends of classwork with Andrew Georgitsis. He encouraged us to use the drysuit primarily for buoyancy, and minimize the air in the wing. It felt awfully strange, but it was definitely warmer, and it did make venting on ascent less complicated. I can certainly see where scooter divers (who are, at least in my personal experience, chronically a hand short) would benefit from venting that could be more or less passive.

Interesting. I was a commited "wing for buoyancy, just put enough gas in the suit to offset the squeeze" guy, until I started diving my ccr in November. Now, since I carry a much smaller volume of gas with me, I started using argon for my suit (argon is wonderfull, by the way!) and I almost never use my wing any more. At the start of the dive, I inflate my wing before I get in the water, and at the end of the dive, I might or might not inflate it, depending on wether or not I need to do much swimming on the surface. I'm starting to like using my drysuit this way, but I only did it out of necessity.

After a couple false starts I very quickly learned that once I got my weighting down all I have to do is offset the squeeze to remain neutrally buoyant. I've used my wing a couple times. A Worthington 130 has a 9lb swing so I'm occasionally adding air to my wing when I'm at 60+fsw early in the dive. I usually end up dumping my wing soon after.

You know, this makes a lot of sense, particularly on the warmth issue. Now that I think about it, when I first dove dry, I used the suit for buoyancy exclusively, and was warmer than the last few times I dove. I've been offsetting the squeeze (only somewhat-I kind of like it) and using my BC for buoyancy. Last weekend, when I was freezing, I did notice a lovely rush of warm air when I added air to my suit, but I was busy paying attention to other things and it didn't register. Something to try this weekend, then...

I dive my drysuit, but it gets me cold from loosing warm air and replacing it with cold air.

When i boat dived cali last fall the boat would anchor in 50ft water and we would end up in 8ft of water during the dive and do most of the dive in 35 ft of water. my weight was good but probably not perfect.

nice-diver wrote:I dive my drysuit, but it gets me cold from loosing warm air and replacing it with cold air.

At the Red Sea I started to fold my hands in front of me and sort of "spin" in a barrel roll for a quick 360 view of above and below me. It was fun, and easy in warm water. I tried it in cold water and it was a bit more difficult and required some more thought, but still quite doable, even with a slung pony.

When I used my dry suit for buoyancy I decided to do my little roll for kicks and grins and proceeded to dump a bunch of air out of my suit, which I had to stop and refill as I became negatively buoyant. I found a simple lift of my arm vented air very fast below about 50 fsw. Tightening my valve a little bit and being more aware of my arm position took care of that just fine.

If you tighten your valve a bit at depth air doesn't come out of it so easily, and will thus stay warmer. That should take care of the "cold air" problem unless you're doing a sawtooth dive profile. Later on in the dive as you ascend you can open it up more so it will vent easier even though there isn't as much air pressure in it.

I keep my valve closed. what I was trying to mean was jump off the boat and sink to the bottom at 50', air off the squeeze....end up at 15' with 50' worth of squeeze air so ya'll dump. then back to the bottom to find the boat...need more squeeze air and then up the anchor.


Also when I dive oregon jetties I jump in to 7ft and eventually get to 35ft at the point and then it shallows up to 10ft at the half way point of the dive. So add loose add loose looking to spear fishes. Its not like the dir text book where the dive site looks like a swimming pool

nice-diver wrote: Its not like the dir text book where the dive site looks like a swimming pool

Huh?

sorry, trying to be funny, any dive book shows a dive profile as go down....across...come up.

nice-diver wrote:sorry, trying to be funny, any dive book shows a dive profile as go down....across...come up.

Aaaah, "square profiles" - got it.

I had two drysuit teachers, one taought using the BCD, one using your suit. I tried both but ended up mainly using my suit as frankly it's just one less valve to worry about. It really does take a little practice but I've never gotten cold and you get used to the angle your diving at. Of course at depth, a BCD makes sense because of the amount of air you'd need is a little like the Staypuff Marshmallow guy.

I was taught originally to use my drysuit for buoyancy...and I always have taught that myself. EXCEPT...if you've got a neoprene neck collar...or if your latex neck seal is almost too big...then the air will escape out of the neck.

Just did a drysuit clinic today in the pool...and discussed with a wetsuit student the fact that I've never been in a wetsuit.

Maybe this will be the summer I'll try...

Interesting, Interesting. How much additional weight do you folks need to carry to offset the additional suit air? Any?

Other than bubble control any other changes? Like reaching valves, etc?

Yesterday I was experimenting with BCD vs. dry suit for buoyancy, and found that I do best with a combination of both, at least so far (these were dives 4 and 5 with the dry suit). One thing I did notice: on the second dive, at Z's Reef, I started getting a little chilled. So I let some air out of my BCD and puffed some into the suit, and the burst of warmth was VERY nice. I did that twice. I think I could get used to this...........

I had to add about 9 pounds when I went from my Henderson 7mm hyperstretch to the Bare D6 neoprene dry suit. I started with 5 pounds, but was still a tad light in shallow water, say above about 15 feet. So I added 4 more pounds and that's just about right.

ArcticDiver wrote:Interesting, Interesting. How much additional weight do you folks need to carry to offset the additional suit air? Any?

Other than bubble control any other changes? Like reaching valves, etc?

In terms of weighting from using your BCD for buoyancy to your drysuit there was no change at all. Some divers here have mentioned shedding weight when they went to a Weezle undergarment because of the superior insulating characteristics so not needing as much undergarment. Can't comment on reaching valves, etc.

Tom Nic wrote:

ArcticDiver wrote:Interesting, Interesting. How much additional weight do you folks need to carry to offset the additional suit air? Any?

Other than bubble control any other changes? Like reaching valves, etc?

In terms of weighting from using your BCD for buoyancy to your drysuit there was no change at all. Some divers here have mentioned shedding weight when they went to a Weezle undergarment because of the superior insulating characteristics so not needing as much undergarment. Can't comment on reaching valves, etc.

Thanks Tom

No diving here yet...or ever it seems like.

After my appointment with the doc hopefully I'll be scheduling some diving down south. I'll have to do some experimentation when I get there. I do know that I can't handle splitting the buoyancy chore between the wing and the suit. I need to do one or the other.

I missed the question about valves and such. I haven't had any problems at all. The inflate button is right in the center of my chest and easy to reach; the dump valve is high up on my left arm. I set it about 3/4 open before I put the rest of my gear on and the rest is automatic. I tend to wear my BCD's cumberbund a bit tight, so I don't get much air going down to my legs. Most of what I put in the suit distributes itself around my torso. I started wearing ankle weights, 1.5 pounds each foot, because those humongous boots on the D6 were a little floaty, and my trim comes out just about right. It's probably more dumb luck than good management, but I'll take it :occasion5:

dwashbur wrote:I missed the question about valves and such. I haven't had any problems at all. The inflate button is right in the center of my chest and easy to reach; the dump valve is high up on my left arm. I set it about 3/4 open before I put the rest of my gear on and the rest is automatic. I tend to wear my BCD's cumberbund a bit tight, so I don't get much air going down to my legs. Most of what I put in the suit distributes itself around my torso. I started wearing ankle weights, 1.5 pounds each foot, because those humongous boots on the D6 were a little floaty, and my trim comes out just about right. It's probably more dumb luck than good management, but I'll take it :occasion5:

The valves I was thinking of are those on the gas cylinders. Sorry I didn't specify.

Floaty Feet? Yep, I've had that. When I first went dry I didn't have any problem with FF. But, when I went to doubles(manifold & Independent) I got them for the first time. But, soon I didn't have floaty feet any more. I'm not really sure what I did to stop that. But, FF went away. Keep at it and before you know it you won't need those ankle weights either.

Okay, I don't do doubles. So never mind, I'll go back to sleep now....

Since I started diving dry...which was my first dive after OW class...i only use my drysuit for bouyancy under water.

i don't like the shrink-wrapped feeling, and if your bouyancy is good, you won't be dumping/adding-cold-air all the time so the warmth is good. putting my argon setup together which will make it even better.

it is way easier to find the inflate button and dump air from a drysuit than feeling around for a BC hose.

you can still hold something with your left hand and dump air at the same time.

if your drysuit and undergarment are a good fit, not too baggy, it is REALLY comfortable. i test dove a couple new drysuits this weekend and neither fit me that well. one was way too big, the other only slightly too big... much less comfortable than the suit i normally dive (old usia aqua-pro).

i use my wing for added bouyancy on the surface when swimming. i also discovered this weekend that surface swims are WAY more warm on a cold day if you do the michelin man thing while swimming. close your drysuit dump valve all the way, add quite a TON of air to your suit, arch your back to get a chunk of that air into your legs, float butt down and swim out. it was SIGNIFICANTLY more warm on the swim out and back for all three of us that were together that tried it. seems obvious, but it just occured to me last weekend.

however, all that said, i am starting to work on using my drysuit and wing in tandem for certain purposes on a dive. in general it is easier to just deal with one thing, but if you are diving over-weighted a bit, it sucks to try and hover head-down because of all the air in your legs. much easier to slightly shrink wrap yourself and use your wing to get neutral...THEN hover head down.

qualification: just my thoughts as a newbie with only 50 drysuit dives.

Tom, what kinda of BC did you stop using?

CaptnJack wrote:Tom, what kinda of BC did you stop using?

I dive a Zeagle Tech, and have enjoyed it. There's a D-Ring or two I'd like to have sown into it to better sling my bail out bottle, but if I had to pick a BC to dive up here the Zeagle's are nice. Of course eventually I'll buy a backplate and wing, but that's another story and another thread.

Funny, today was my first dive after warm water, and though I was using my drysuit for buoyancy exclusively it sure felt awkward, and my feet felt floatier than I remembered. Of course, I'm sure it is just getting used to cold water again, and because warm water diving there is NO air in your feet at all. Sigh... back to what I'm calling "ziplock baggie diving"...

Most of the Zeagle's I have seen (never dove) seem to put alot of gas near your waist. I was just wondering how the suit bubble was similar/different

CaptnJack wrote:Most of the Zeagle's I have seen (never dove) seem to put alot of gas near your waist. I was just wondering how the suit bubble was similar/different

The suit bubble seems to be more toward the shoulders... but when I consciously "tip forward" a bit it is easy to adjust my trim.