WTB (maybe) single BP/Wing

[scottsax]

Talk to me about the merits of different manufacturer's BP/wing setups (without debating DIR, please-none of my threads has ever been locked or deleted, and I'd like to keep it that way). Is Halcyon the only thing you'll dive, or is DSS the way to go? I'm not looking at diving doubles (yet), although I'd like to keep my options open if possible (except I don't want to dive a giant, inflatable taco)

If you have information or opinions that you think might be inflammatory, feel free to PM me. I'm not judgemental, just a newb trying to learn....

[Joshua Smith]

OK, it's pricey, but, in my opinion, the Golem wings are the very best ones on the market. Freaking in-de-structable, really, really, stable in the water-and, the inflator is, like, military grade- the burliest, baddest one you ever held. I sold mine when I moved to doubles, and bought a Golem 55# wing for those.....sold that when I got the Meg. Golem now makes a CCR wing, but they didn't when I was looking, or I would have bought that, too. Note- the price in the link above is for a wing/ BP, harness, and lil' knife- all you gotta do is put a tank in it and go diving- the wing is cheaper all by itself.

[scottsax]

OK, it's pricey

Eh... It's not much more than a high-end BC.

Thanks!

[scottsax]

One other thing-if I'm asking the wrong questions, feel free to let me know. As the saying goes, I don't know what I don't know yet, so holla at your boy if there's different or better questions I should be asking...

[Ken G]

I think there are many brands currently making great wings. A lot of it is just personal preference as there are more than one that are going to work for your needs. Here are a few ideas


Deep Sea Supply Torus
Oxycheq Mach V
Golem
Agir Brokk
Diverite

There are others like Deep Outdoors, OMS, Halcyon etc. I don't know too much about these personally.

The Golem is built like a tank. This is one tough wing.
For me is too big for smaller singles. I used one in Bonaire and found it to be not much smaller than my doubles wing. It was 30lbs and was much larger than my 40lb Oxycheq. I think for steel 8' tanks it would be fine but for Alum 80's it tacos.
http://www.golemgear.com/c-2-bcdswings.aspx

I use the Oxycheq for most of my single tank diving and cant say enough good things about it. It is well made, well priced, and a great design. This is the most narrow design I have seen on any wing. It can be purchased in three different versions depending on how rough you are going to be on it. I went for the Signature series that is the medium. They do it in an extreme as well that you can take a razor blade to without damage.
http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/Wings-Single.html

If price was not an issue I would have probably purchased the DSS. It is a bit bigger overall than the OXY but it is practically hand made Tobin and his crew at DSS.
https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?category=wings

Agir
http://www.agir-brokk.com/07c5c892-10f0 ... 49-29.html

Diverite
http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/wings

Backplate are also made by most of these manufactures. I use a SS Hammerhead which is by far the most economical BP I have found.
I also have a Alum plate for warm water.

http://www.hammerheadbackplates.com/default.htm

But again if price was not an issue I would have gone with the DSS plate. Great plate for single tank diving as the channel is not as deep as most other designs I have seen. It also has plastic inserts in the webbing slots rather than using triglides to secure the straps. Not cheap though.

For harness I would suggest Hogarthian but its personal preference. I love mine.

[Pez7378]

I saw video of some nut SHOOTING a Golem wing! I really love my DSS single rig. I kinda wish I'd have gotten a DSS doubles rig too. (I didn't want to wait for it to come in the mail) But DSS is the only thing I know. I tried one of Bobs Halcyon rigs and it was why I went to BP/W in the first place. If not for price, I'd have gotten a Halcyon setup. I have an APEX wing for my doubles and although its cool, I'm not a big fan of the inflator. You will probably love whatever you decide to use. Joe loves his APEX wing and his Hammerhead B/P. Probably because he knows nothing else, and it's WAY better than his old BC. For those of us that can't afford, or don't have the opportunity to try many different models, we generally learn to dive what we get and it works for us.

[LCF]

There are a number of manufacturers in the BP/W arena, making good quality gear. There are a few things to consider when planning your purchase: With backplates, it's material (stainless, aluminum or Kydex) and finish (smooth slots and edges). Some of the inexpensive backplates aren't well finished and require that the buyer debur them. I'm not willing to do that. The major manufacturers will have finished their edges and slots well. DSS goes a step further, and puts an elastomeric insert in the slots at the bottom of the plate, so you don't have to use a triglide to hold the harness, and wear is reduced. I believe they are the only people who do anything like that. For those of us diving in the cold Pacific Northwest, quite a bit of weight is often needed, so a heavy backplate (Fred T makes a heavy one, or you can buy clever weight plates from DSS that screw onto the basic SS plate) is sometimes just the ticket.

For wings, you need the right amount of lift, and a shape that works for you. I prefer not to use an STA, so I like the DSS design with the wobble-stopper. I believe Oxycheq may also have an STA-less solution, and I don't know about Halcyon. I don't buy Halcyon gear because, although it's mostly well designed and well built, it carries a painful premium on price, and it's got these blue H's all over it . . .

One mistake people make is to try to buy a single wing that will work for a single tank and for doubles. You can't do it. The width of the center panel is different, and doubles wings wrap up around single tanks (taco) and won't vent. Double tanks put on single wings compress the air bladder and reduce the lift. A second wing is the smallest part of the expense of going to double tanks, and it just doesn't pay to try to save money that way.

One of the reasons I buy DSS gear is the customer service from the company. When a friend of mine wanted to buy a DSS setup, she tried to order it, and they wouldn't sell it to her. Wouldn't, that is, until Tobin had talked to her and gotten enough information to be sure she was buying the RIGHT equipment, stuff she'd be happy with and would suit her needs. I don't know many companies that would do something like that.

[Maverick]

I have a dive rite BP SS. and a Dive rite rec wing, this is a great singles wing and also can be used as a doubles wing. I use it for my small set of doubles, and I use a Golem wing for my big set of doubles. Both wings are great and i would buy them both again with out event thhinking twice, although if i was to tr and buy one wing to out last my life it would be my GOLEM wing for sure. it is so tough you could use it as an innertube behind a ski boat.

as far as BP's they are all good, it just matters what fits your back

[spatman]

scott, thanks for starting this thread, i've been meaning to ask the same questions.

to everyone else, thanks for your awesome advice.

[spatman]

With backplates, it's material (stainless, aluminum or Kydex)

what are the advantages and disadvantages of using these different materials in a backplate?

[Joshua Smith]

With backplates, it's material (stainless, aluminum or Kydex)

what are the advantages and disadvantages of using these different materials in a backplate?

It's all about weighting, and where you want to wear that weight. Virtually every local BP/ W diver goes with a SS BP, to take a couple pounds off their weightbelt. In warm water, most people go with an AL BP, because they don't need the extra weight.....at least, that is my understanding.....I've never dived in warm water.

[spatman]

It's all about weighting, and where you want to wear that weight. Virtually every local BP/ W diver goes with a SS BP, to take a couple pounds off their weightbelt. In warm water, most people go with an AL BP, because they don't need the extra weight.....at least, that is my understanding.....I've never dived in warm water.

thanks, nailer. what's an average SS bp weigh vs an aluminum one?

[ArcticDiver]

As has been pointed out exactly what you buy is really a very personal decision. For example: My body type gives me a different center of gravity than that of a small, slender person. So, where I put buoyancy and lift will be a bit different than someone else. My body shape also makes it hard for me to use a weight belt; whereas someone who has a larger butt will find it generally easier. Well, you get the point. It really is almost a trial and error kind of selection process.

Then some folks will have different experiences with some manufacturers than others; something like personality matching. Some people like Oxycheq. I don't. I bought an item and had a question. I tried calling and never got a call back. I tried emailing; again with no contact. For me that was a Critical Issue. For others it wouldn't be.

I like DiveRite because their gear has always treated me well and I have never had anythng but top customer service from them. But, I'll bet there are a couple people on this Board who have the contrary experience.

Contrary to some other comments I think the DiveRite RecWing is THE best all around wing I have ever used. I use it for doubles and singles, wet and dry and it always does the job. Would something else be better? Maybe. But, this wing is almost indestructable and is realitively inexpensive. On the other hand, I do own an OMS double bladder wing for lots of tanks, or lots of weight when diving wet.

So, go try a lot of different pieces of gear and have fun.

[Ken G]

It's all about weighting, and where you want to wear that weight. Virtually every local BP/ W diver goes with a SS BP, to take a couple pounds off their weightbelt. In warm water, most people go with an AL BP, because they don't need the extra weight.....at least, that is my understanding.....I've never dived in warm water.

thanks, nailer. what's an average SS bp weigh vs an aluminum one?

About 2lbs on the Alum
About 6 lbs onthe SS

[Penopolypants]

thanks, nailer. what's an average SS bp weigh vs an aluminum one?

I met someone who had a 10 lb SS plate once, not sure where it came from.

Diverite makes an ABS plastic plate that's light as a feather, and DSS makes a kydex/steel hybrid plate that is light as well but I don't know the weight.

When I bought my DSS wing, Tobin recommended the torus over the horseshoe shape is because I wear a lot of weight in a harness on my hips, and the torus shape has more lift at the bottom near my weights. Arcticdiver is right.....location of buoyancy and weight and whatnot do make a difference.

[spatman]

thanks for all of the info so far.

So, go try a lot of different pieces of gear and have fun.

are there places folks know of where i could rent various setups?

[LCF]

I don't know where you can rent various setups. 5thD at Alki rents Halcyon setups, but the one my friend rented came without a crotch strap, which makes a BP/W VERY uncomfortable. But if you are diving in the Seattle area and post ahead of time, my guess is you won't have any trouble finding gear to borrow for a dive. Many of us have both singles and doubles setups, and I'm willing to lend, and I know Bob is, and we have different stuff.

[spatman]

Many of us have both singles and doubles setups, and I'm willing to lend, and I know Bob is, and we have different stuff.

thanks, LCF, that's very generous! i'm doing my AOW with bob beginning next weekend. maybe at some point i can try his, and Sounder mentioned loaning me Mrs. Sounder's rig for a dive as well. i'll try to connect with you after i complete the class to see if we might be able to work something out.

[Diver_C]

I always wear the same backplate regardless of water temperature. I think consistency always helps with diving, so try to change as little as possible. I don't want to wear a bunch of around my waist. Don't really care about ditchable weight either.

I dive a SS backplate (6 lbs.). In warm, I use a full wet suit (3 mm farmer john with 2 mm jacket), single tank adapter (6 lbs.), (usually) no can light, and the rental al80. For weighting, I wear 8 lbs. on my waist. When diving cold, I am in a shell dry suit, have a can light (3 lbs.), use an argon bottle (1 lbs.), and with a single tank, I wear 6 lbs.. When diving cold with doubles, I wear 2 lbs (of course there is no single tank adapter). When I use my deco bottle, an al40, I don't wear any additional weight. Note: I also use Jet Fins, so I guess there is some negative weight with them.

I use different 40 lbs. donut wings, depending upon whether I am diving a single or doubles. The single tank wing is more like a maple bar, than a traditional glazed donut. The doubles wing is more like an apple fritter, a little more square. Don't get more lift than you need, which then negates any need for bungie cords on the wing (possible entanglement hazard), or wearing a taco on your back.

When I switched from a back-inflated jacket bcd to the traditional backplate/wing bcd, I noticed little difference in how they dive. I think that was because that first bcd had all the inflation in the back, and just weight pockets on the hips. The only really difference between the two was in adjusting the backplate. The "jacket" was very easy to adjust, and I liked it tight. Whereas, the single piece of webbing for the backplate is a pain to adjust, and will probably take awhile to adjust it to where you like it. I, also, wear it a little looser than I did my other bcd, but the crotch strap makes it okay to do so, although, hanging upside-down required some adjustments.

Good luck!

Rich

[Sounder]

I really like the DSS plates and wings too, and have the weight plates which adds an additional 8lbs to the 6lbs SS plate. It's really nice to have all that weight directly under the lift.

I will be using the same plate for my doubles but will be getting a new DSS doubles wing.

Quite a while ago (not for my recent Bonaire trip), I called Tobin to order a kydex plate for a warm water trip. He actually, as folks have mentioned, wouldn't sell it to me. He described that the kydex plate was really designed for times you're REALLY restricted on weight (like when flying to the corners of the earth on tini-tiny little planes) and flat out can't afford the extra weight of the SS plate. He suggested I just take the weight plates off and dive my SS plate (which gave me 6lbs I didn't have to carry on my belt)... it was a fantastic suggestion. SO, after hanging up the phone without buying something I'd called to buy, I called NWSD to order a couple new tanks.

Lots of great gear out there, and it'll all really "work," but if you can get your hands on some to try them out, you can decide what you like best and what works best for you. For me, how I'm treated as a customer carries a lot of weight in my decision making process too... and when I was first ordering it Tobin (DSS) spent almost an hour on the phone with me helping me to make the right choices. His advice and guidance was spot-on.

[dsteding]

I will be using the same plate for my doubles but will be getting a new DSS doubles wing.

One thing I've found with the DSS plate is that some bolt lengths on sets of doubles are not long enough, because the plate is fairly flat. Something to consider.

[LCF]

Have you experienced that yourself, Doug? Because the only place we've ever had any problems was at EE. None of their tanks would work with Peter's plate, but every other set of doubles we rented worked fine.

[dsteding]

Have you experienced that yourself, Doug? Because the only place we've ever had any problems was at EE. None of their tanks would work with Peter's plate, but every other set of doubles we rented worked fine.

Yes. My first set of doubles it was an issue.

[Sounder]

Have you experienced that yourself, Doug? Because the only place we've ever had any problems was at EE. None of their tanks would work with Peter's plate, but every other set of doubles we rented worked fine.

Yes. My first set of doubles it was an issue.

This is interesting... I expect Tobin is aware of this (how could he not be?).

[Sounder]

Is it a particular brand of band/bolts, or particular size of plate, or is there any way to determine that "these work and these don't?"