What makes a diver a "good" diver?

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Pez7378
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What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Pez7378 »

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I wanted to generate some "civil" discussion on what we as a community think it takes to be a good diver. I have been in the water with people that I really admire, in terms of their underwater skills, and I've been diving with some folks that I think need some serious training. I'm sure that everyone wants to be a "good diver" but some may not realize that they are not. I certainly didn't realize how stupid I am until my dive buddy pointed it out to me :evil4: . So the question is, What does it take to be a good diver, or what attributes do you look for in a regular dive buddy? Is it training, buddy awareness, comfort level, number of dives, equipment configuration, strokability :dontknow: reliability, common goals? Tell us what it is that you think makes a good diver good, and how you choose your buddies.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by mancub »

I am a new diver (not much more than 100 dives), but I'd say...buoyancy control/trim, buddy awareness, knowledge and ability to quickly and safely assess situations and what needs to be done, never being finished with the learning process of diving. I don't think I will ever be satisfied with the amount of knowledge and skill I have relating to diving. ...and likes to buy a round or two of beers!
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by dwashbur »

For me I think it would be a combination of:

1. Buddy awareness. Stays in view and we make veer-off decisions together.
2. Similar interests. I/we like to go really slow and look for little stuff. If my buddy of the day is only interested in covering ground while looking for wolfies, gpo's, sixgills and big rockfish, we're going to annoy the daylights out of each other.
3. Good buoyancy/trim, and especially keeping fins off the bottom to keep from kicking up muck, is important, but as we're all in various stages of development and progress, and I'm far from perfect myself, this goes at the bottom of the list.

I also try to make sure that anybody who dives with us knows our peculiar hand signals. For example: the sign-language letter "S" waggled back and forth means "sorry." Making an A-frame with our hands (sort of like a peaked roof) means "let's go home." Others have different signs for this one; the fellow we dove with most recently here in Idaho said his signal for going home is, he mimes popping open a beer and taking a drink :partyman: As long as we all know the signal, I can live with either one :salute:
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by BDub »

To me, a good dive is someone with good situational awareness, good contact and communication, is safe, and is always looking to improve.

Sure buoyancy, trim, kicks are some signs of a good diver, but getting good at those requires practice and experience. I've dived with people (typically newer divers) who weren't particularly strong in those areas, but were really working to improve them. But they did have the communication and situational awareness that, to me, made them a good diver and buddy.

The mechanics of the other stuff will come with time, and even the fact that they were really practicing to become good with those skills are, to me, a sign of a good diver.

Good topic, Chris!
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Pez7378 »

mancub wrote:......... never being finished with the learning process of diving. I don't think I will ever be satisfied with the amount of knowledge and skill I have relating to diving. ...and likes to buy a round or two of beers!
That's the good stuff right there mancub. :occasion5: I remember my OW instructor telling me that my new C-card wasn't a license to dive, but a license to learn! :book:
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Pez7378 »

BDub wrote:To me, a good dive is someone with good situational awareness, good contact and communication, is safe, and is always looking to improve.

Sure buoyancy, trim, kicks are some signs of a good diver, but getting good at those requires practice and experience. I've dived with people (typically newer divers) who weren't particularly strong in those areas, but were really working to improve them. But they did have the communication and situational awareness that, to me, made them a good diver and buddy.

The mechanics of the other stuff will come with time, and even the fact that they were really practicing to become good with those skills are, to me, a sign of a good diver.

Good topic, Chris!
Thanks BDub. I hope to learn something here and I'm also hoping others will learn from this discussion as well.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by enchantmentdivi »

LOVE the topic! Right now, I have a pet peeve with divers with poor buoyancy skills....especially those that are adding on other tasks such as photography. If a diver can't control his/her buoyancy when just diving, they sure as heck don't need to add a camera set-up the size of a Mack truck that require them to kick like crazy to stay in just the right place to get just the right picture. They become bulldozers under water--crowding, kicking up silt, kicking marine life, etc. Argh! ](*,)
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by spatman »

Pez7378 wrote:So the question is, What does it take to be a good diver, or what attributes do you look for in a regular dive buddy?
seems to be two questions, actually...

what it takes for me to be a good diver is what many have already stated: improving my buoyancy, keeping communication open, being aware of our situation, learning and knowing how my buddies like to dive, and diving in a safe and responsible manner.

the things i look for in a buddy are very much what i have listed above, but i would like to add that as a new diver (~50 dives), i also look for buddies who are patient, willing to tell me when i mess up, offer suggestions as to how to stop messing up, and generally help me in my growth as a diver.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by airsix »

Spatman is right. There is a difference. The "good diver" list is more comprehensive, but includes the minimum requirements for "good buddy". Here's my "good buddy" list:

* Aware of and evaluates ALL of the risks we take
* Alert and thoroughly considers the potential "unintended consequences" of each decision
* High situational awareness
* As committed to guarding my life as I am theirs
* Competent, but not over-confident. I will not dive with anyone who thinks they don't make mistakes.
* Takes the time to be safe. Checklist. Dive-plan. Gas-plan. Equipment check. Communication check. Emergency plan. All done with buddy. It doesn't take very long but so many divers skip it or skim it.

Notice that number of dives, finning skill, buoyancy control, SAC rate, training level, etc. are nowhere on my list.

Disclaimer: I am not a great diver, but I aspire to be. Many of you here have demonstrated the above qualities I aspire to, when I have had the pleasure of diving with you.

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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by airsix »

airsix wrote:Notice that number of dives, finning skill, buoyancy control, SAC rate, training level, etc. are nowhere on my list.

Disclaimer: I am not a great diver, but I aspire to be. Many of you here have demonstrated the above qualities I aspire to, when I have had the pleasure of diving with you.

-Ben
OK, I'm sure it is horribly poor form to quote myself, but I wanted to expand on that. A few weeks ago PEZ and I grabbed dinner after a dive and had a great conversation about how important it is for the highly skilled divers to mentor those (with the right attitude) coming up in the ranks. If a diver sets too high of a skill standard for buddies he/she denies the less-skilled an opportunity to develop. I am very grateful for the highly skilled divers here who have been mentoring and teaching me when they could have been diving with other more highly skilled divers. This is greatly appreciated.

-Ben
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Joshua Smith »

Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by dwashbur »

Nailer99 wrote:Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
Far as I know, there's only one way to really test for it, and it's not a pleasant prospect! :pale:
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Sounder »

dwashbur wrote:
Nailer99 wrote:Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
Far as I know, there's only one way to really test for it, and it's not a pleasant prospect! :pale:
I disagree. In my opinion there are plenty of ways to test it and become ready for the day when it happens. Continued training and real practice for emergency situations are definitely part of what I consider a "good diver."
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Sounder »

For me, a good buddy is someone who shares the same priorities and values I do with respect to diving. A good buddy, for me, is someone I KNOW has the skills and mental capacity to save my life in the event that "it hits the fan." A good buddy is also someone I enjoy diving with - someone who I am completely comfortable with and with whom I can relax. Oh yeah, and a buddy who constantly finds really cool stuff and is funny underwater is an invaluable companion.

I consider a "good diver," with respect to skills, to be someone who is proficient in the water. Someone having a strong grasp of buoyancy, dive planning, trim, navigation, gas management, emergency preparedness, and a variety of other skills. I also believe a "good diver" is someone who takes the time and makes the effort to become a stronger diver.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by dwashbur »

Sounder wrote:
dwashbur wrote:
Nailer99 wrote:Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
Far as I know, there's only one way to really test for it, and it's not a pleasant prospect! :pale:
I disagree. In my opinion there are plenty of ways to test it and become ready for the day when it happens. Continued training and real practice for emergency situations are definitely part of what I consider a "good diver."
To a certain extent, I agree, and stand corrected.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by LCF »

Well, I've seen several discussions of this topic on different boards, and one of the things that someone will always say is that you're a good diver if you have a good attitude and you're trying. But you know what, I disagree with that. You're not a good diver if your basic diving skills aren't good, no matter how nice or earnest you are or how hard you are trying. I guess what I'm trying to say is that most new divers aren't good divers . . . YET. But they can be good companions underwater, and I enjoy diving with them.

To me, there are a LOT of characteristics that go into making up a good diver. Good in-water skills are part of it -- The ability to place yourself where you want to be, in the position you want to be in, and stay there if you want to. The ability to reduce the impact on your surroundings to the degree that's necessary or desirable. The ability to solve problems underwater to the degree that's appropriate to the dive in question. Facility with one's equipment. Facility with emergency procedures (air sharing, mask replacement). Those are all physical diving skills that a good diver should have, IMO.

Then you add situational awareness, which includes but is not limited to buddy skills. Knowing where you are, where your buddy is, how the conditions are changing and what implications that has for the dive plan, what resources the team has (gas, equipment, knowledge) and always keeping in mind the limiting parameters of the dive (eg. need to return to the anchor line or find the shore exit).

But then you have to add the experience and judgment to assess a dive accurately and make good decisions about its advisability (and some of that is related to varying amounts of risk tolerance). To do good dive planning, including collecting the necessary information about site and conditions, and planning gas supplies and time parameters for the dive. Selecting appropriate buddies and shore support, if needed. Obviously, you need to do very little of this to paddle around the Honey Bear, and a lot of it if you're going to try Deception Pass.

And then I'll add a couple of criteria that are personal to MY definition of a good diver: I think a good diver has a lot of respect for the power of the water and the alien nature of where we go, and never loses that. And to me, a really good diver has some humility, because all of us could be better at one or more things. And the final characteristic that makes me admire a diver is generosity. The people who command my greatest respect are the ones who spend some time giving back to the diving world -- For example, the folks who were involved in the recent Big Buddy dive.

By my own definitions, I have a ways to go to reach the "good diver" level. But you don't have to meet all those criteria perfectly to be a good underwater companion and a good buddy and fun to dive with. I've had extremely enjoyable dives with brand new divers whose buoyancy was iffy and whose ability to avoid silt just wasn't there yet, but they were so joyful about being underwater and so excited about what they saw that it was a great time anyway.

The one non-negotiable demand I have is that buddies stay together. If you're unwilling or unable to do that, you don't go in my list of good divers and you don't go in my address book :)
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Nwbrewer »

Sounder wrote:
dwashbur wrote:
Nailer99 wrote:Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
Far as I know, there's only one way to really test for it, and it's not a pleasant prospect! :pale:
I disagree. In my opinion there are plenty of ways to test it and become ready for the day when it happens. Continued training and real practice for emergency situations are definitely part of what I consider a "good diver."
I just swim up with my light waving wildly and spit my reg out while making slashing motions. That's a pretty good way to tell how someone's going to do under stress... :evil4:
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Sounder »

Nwbrewer wrote:
Sounder wrote:
dwashbur wrote:
Nailer99 wrote:Aside from the stuff that you all pointed out, what I look for is someone who is level headed enough to handle a stressfull situation underwater without panicking. It's not something you can test for very easilly.
Far as I know, there's only one way to really test for it, and it's not a pleasant prospect! :pale:
I disagree. In my opinion there are plenty of ways to test it and become ready for the day when it happens. Continued training and real practice for emergency situations are definitely part of what I consider a "good diver."
I just swim up with my light waving wildly and spit my reg out while making slashing motions. That's a pretty good way to tell how someone's going to do under stress... :evil4:
Yup, that's definitely one way!
LCF wrote:By my own definitions, I have a ways to go to reach the "good diver" level.
...the rest of us who know her definitely don't call LCF a "good diver," because she's a "GREAT diver!!!"
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by lurch »

Pez7378 wrote:what attributes do you look for in a regular dive buddy?
There's a reason I dive with nwbrewer. :occasion5: :occasion5: :partyman: :partyman:
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by mattwave »

Good after dive beer choices.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Marc »

I would say that a good diver is someone that dives not only within their limits and skillset, but has a realistic assessment of their buddies skills and stays within those limits as well.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Pez7378 »

Blitz wrote:I would say that a good diver is someone that dives not only within their limits and skillset, but has a realistic assessment of their buddies skills and stays within those limits as well.
Good point Marc.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by submarine »

I have always thought that there are three explanations for why someone is not great at what they do. This holds true to with every aspect of life (of course, my opinion)… career, relationships, & scuba diving. You are either lacking:
1. Experience
2. Passion (do not care enough)
3. Brains (too stupid)
Point is, I’ll work with the new guy any day!
I agree with all the points on skills, continued education, attention, etc. but, I also want to dive with people that want to have fun and gets excited to explore and see new things.
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by Pez7378 »

Okay, all great responses to the question(s). All these things seem to be important to many of us, communication, contact, situational/buddy awareness, buoyancy control, stress management, desire to become better, diving within our limits, safety, common goals, ............. Let's shift the topic.

Only Lynne mentioned the "deal breaker". Unable to maintain the cohesiveness of the "team". Does everyone have a deal breaker? I've only had one first dive with someone that didn't exactly go well. But we solved the problem, and finished the dive. That still wasn't enough to make me say, never again, although I haven't seen the guy in awhile. It was a learning experience for both of us (and experience can help us become better divers). What would cause you to say, that's it, I'm never diving with that person again? :dontknow: Buddy abandonment must be high on the list?
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Re: What makes a diver a "good" diver?

Post by spatman »

Pez7378 wrote:Does everyone have a deal breaker? ... Buddy abandonment must be high on the list?
yes, there is a deal breaker for me, and i found out what it was the hard way. who ever i regularly dive should be willing to analyze what the dive was about and discuss it. some sort of debriefing is important, especially after something has gone wrong.

many of you read my runaway buddy thread from a few months ago. the deal breaker is not that he panicked and bolted from me. what keeps this deal broken is that in the aftermath, there was never an initiative from him to sort out what happened, and how to learn from it. as you can tell from that thread, i sought out advice and answers, trying my best to learn from it and possibly prevent another occurrence. what i got from my buddy was the exact opposite. in fact, whenever i tried (and occasionally still try) to bring it up, he brushed it off with something like "yeah, that was a close one. anyway, what are you doing this weekend?"

diving without you, pal.
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