What have you found while diving??

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:50 pm

I found one of these..

I had the numbers run and it came back clean.. Finders keepers.. $\:D/$

thelawgoddess · Post by **thelawgoddess** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:48 pm

that is cool! i want one!!!

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:16 pm

Uhm, even if the numbers came back clean... people don't just throw guns into the water for no reason. You've got yourself a murder weapon my friend. And I thought that the most interesting thing you'd found were these sunglasses from the sunken I-90 bridge.

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:25 pm

Oh, that's just one of my shark guns. I use rifles for fighting enemy spies underwater.

Zen Diver v1 · Post by **Zen Diver v1** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:54 am

I suspect I know where you found that, as I found one with a dive buddy once at a local site. We left it where it was after taking headings and photos, and called the police. A weapon underwater makes it a crime scene. Local recovery teams were supposed to retrieve it, but perhaps you beat them to it.

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:28 am

We have a local dive site/murder weapon repository? I would imagine a few weapons hit the briney from the ferrys between Seattle and Bremerton over tthe years.

thelawgoddess · Post by **thelawgoddess** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 am

Zen Diver wrote:I suspect I know where you found that, as I found one with a dive buddy once at a local site. We left it where it was after taking headings and photos, and called the police. A weapon underwater makes it a crime scene. Local recovery teams were supposed to retrieve it, but perhaps you beat them to it.

yeah; somehow i doubt it would have been worth their time.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am

I could easily imagine a drunk boater leaning over the side and dropping his weapon- it's not necessarily a murder weapon. I admit, it does look bad, but it could still just be from a very expensive fishing trip!

So, did it clean up OK, and have you tried shooting it, DD?

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:11 am

Nailer, yeah, that is a possibility but more than likely it was used in a crime and ditched. If DD lets the cops run ballistics on it then it's a done deal. If, on the other hand, the ballistics match something that was removed from someone he may be in a position to take a bad guy away for a long time.

It's a big city...

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:40 am

Well, here's a subject where I can add my 2psi to (I was a police officer in a past life before entering the private sector and oh what a sweet change that was!).

It looks like an older Sig Sauer .45ACP, but it could also be a Sig 9mm or .40 (chances are due to the era of it's production, it's probably NOT a .40) and it's American style without the European mag release at the base of the mag port. How'd I do? If I'm right, they were fairly common but are a nice weapon and I would guess it to be late 1970's-1989.

I'm with Calvin - just because it comes back clean through records check only means it was never reported stolen. It's an older model, but Sig's aren't cheap guns and as Washington isn't an "open carry" state, you're VERY unlikely to have an "accidental dropping" of your pistol while fishing... although stranger things have happened.

If it were used in a crime and ditched (which is my guess, anything from homicide to robbery), the crime may have very well been solved or may still be open. In my opinion, had I found the weapon while diving I would have recovered it as you did and run the serial number right away to ensure it isn't "hot" just as you have. I would then contact the county sheriff's department where you found it and let them know what/where you found. Let them know that if it comes back clean, you want to keep it (because it's a great weapon and if you enjoy shooting, there's not many nicer than a Sig!).

I would offer it to them for ballastic testing because if it was used in a crime, they may have ballastics on file (or another department might, but they'll cross check it nation-wide) from a crime where THAT GUN was used. If it WAS used in a crime, you really don't want it because ballastics could potientially connect you to it down the road (you wouldn't be convicted of anything, but it would cause you an expensive & stressful legal headache). They'll probably have no interest in it, where in which I would request a quick officer's report documenting that you found it and that now DiverDown owns this make/model with XXXXXXXXX serial number. Put that in a file and take it to a gun smith for a once-over (or do it yourself if you know how). You've got yourself a great find!

This is simply my opinion, but I'm with Calvin thinking there's more to it than a bad day fishing. I'd be interested to learn where and how deep you found it. Enquiring minds want to know! I would just jump through a couple hoops to ensure it isn't needed for a case and document that if it wasn't, law enforcement didn't have an interest in it and it now belongs to you.

I'd be curious to hear what you find out - please keep us posted!

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:07 am

...and here you just thought you had a cool find, nothing else!

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:17 am

Hey, it IS a cool find no matter what! That's the kind of thing that has a CSI episode written all over it. DD you could be famous!!! $\:D/$ Write a book and don't forget the little guys when you're a big star!

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:43 pm

I had another thought about it - if you do keep it (which I hope you would!), I woud probably rinse it really well in distilled water to get any salt out, and oil it well with a penetrating compound. I might consider a re-bluing or having another finish put on it, and replacing the barrel, firing pin, and springs.

Doing this would cost about $100 (without the finish) and functionally give you a brand new weapon. $\:D/$ It would also change the ballastics on any fired rounds and case marks/prints from the ejector/extractor and firing pin.

Ok, so that's about 14 psi worth but I hope it's helpful to you. If you want to sell it, let me know!!! $\:D/$

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:41 pm

Sasquatch wrote:We have a local dive site/murder weapon repository? I would imagine a few weapons hit the briney from the ferrys between Seattle and Bremerton over tthe years.

Those weapons are all in water which is probably 500-800 feet deep and are unlikely to ever be recovered. That's the smart way to ditch a piece. The dumb way is to huck it offshore where a diver might find it...

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:45 pm

Oh yeah, we found a handgrenade in Lake Crescent last time we were up there. I think it has been found and refound multiple times by divers. If anyone finds it again -- do not touch it, but mark it so you can get back to it (i.e. run line to a rock near it) and we've actually got contact with someone official that wants to get a disposal team down there to remove it.

thelawgoddess · Post by **thelawgoddess** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:49 pm

lamont wrote:Oh yeah, we found a handgrenade in Lake Crescent last time we were up there. I think it has been found and refound multiple times by divers. If anyone finds it again -- do not touch it, but mark it so you can get back to it (i.e. run line to a rock near it) and we've actually got contact with someone official that wants to get a disposal team down there to remove it.

ooh ... yeah; i'd be all for taking the gun, but the handgrenade ... i don't think so!!!

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:20 pm

Someone should make an ROV robot which is self-directed and can hunt about in the muck deep in puget sound looking for guns... Launch it, give it a search pattern, then recover it later when it ascends after running low on juice and see what it found... Could set it up with various different kinds of sonar and magnetometry to try to look for objects just under the silt layer... Be cool to get it so that it was so self directed and with enough burntime that you could launch and recover it from shore...

(I guess if its self-directed, though, its by definition no longer an ROV...)

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:37 pm

Cool find, Diver-Down!

Regarding the best thing that I've found underwater (leaving OUT the Warren case in Lake Crescent!), it would have to be on a dive out at Klas Rocks several years back....

My buddy and I headed out there on his boat to dive the rocks on the first dive and then hit Mats Mats Quarry on the second. As we were gearing up we were talking about gear that we wanted to get, including spearguns. I told him that I had decided to buy a JBL Northwest 38 Special, which is a beautiful aluminum band-gun supposedly designed with Northwest waters in mind and our Lings, (I don't think that JBL even makes them anymore). Being an engineer and REALLY into cool designs that work, he said that he wanted a pneumatic gun, and we dropped over the side and descended.

About 15 minutes into the dive I happened to notice a flash of silver off to my right and turned to see what I thought would be the tail of a retreating salmon.....instead I saw.....you guessed it......a JBL Northwest 38 Special speargun just laying on the bottom waiting for me! $\:D/$

I could hear my buddy cussing up a blue streak through his regulator for the rest of the dive. He's STILL pissed off about it.....to this day he complains that all he ever finds is #@&*% golf balls!

- John

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:39 pm

Zen Diver wrote:I suspect I know where you found that, as I found one with a dive buddy once at a local site. We left it where it was after taking headings and photos, and called the police. A weapon underwater makes it a crime scene. Local recovery teams were supposed to retrieve it, but perhaps you beat them to it.

I found that gun in lake stevens, two days earlier my freind found a jennings 380 auto. We called the lk stevens PD and they never came to get it. So after waiting in front of the police station for an hour we left. On the way home he called the Snohomish county PD and gave them his address so they could come get it. Well its been a year now and he still has it..

It looks like an older Sig Sauer .45ACP, but it could also be a Sig 9mm or .40 (chances are due to the era of it's production, it's probably NOT a .40) and it's American style without the European mag release at the base of the mag port. How'd I do? If I'm right, they were fairly common but are a nice weapon and I would guess it to be late 1970's-1989.

It is actually a sig saur p226 9mm post ban. It had only a 9 rd magazine so that dates it after 92..

As far as the numb3rs go, my freind and instructor works for the Everett PD Capt (I think that is his title) but I know hes up there in rank. I gave him the gun since it never was reported stolen they cant pin it to a actual crime.. Im sure if it was a problem he would have confiscated it..

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:43 pm

Without getting into a long discussion about right or wrong, I am sure that the gun was probably used in a crime.

I did my part, so I gonna keep it, besides its a cool find..

But hands down I think DiverDave finds the coolest stuff.. I would love to find some old bottles that pre date 1900..

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:15 pm

No freakin' shit you did your part. I'd think they would have had a ballistic work-up done and a file made before handing you back the piece, er, both pieces.

The thing is that if the weapons weren't stolen from the factory there should be a record of the original owner. I'd say easy police work once those numbers were cross referenced to the person that bought them.

Most interesting.

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:39 pm

I'm sure the original owner either sold it or never had it stolen.. So there gonna run his name, and nothing comes up so what do you do?? Do you think the PD is gonna spend time doing ballistics on all weapons found.. I am certain that hundreds of guns are found and turned in every year.. Most crimes are solved in the first 48 hrs.. My thought is that some kids probably stole it from there father?? Felt guilty after dad found out and got rid of it!! At least that's what I like to think..

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:48 pm

lamont wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:We have a local dive site/murder weapon repository? I would imagine a few weapons hit the briney from the ferrys between Seattle and Bremerton over tthe years.
Those weapons are all in water which is probably 500-800 feet deep and are unlikely to ever be recovered. That's the smart way to ditch a piece. The dumb way is to huck it offshore where a diver might find it...

You ever watch "the worlds dumbest criminals on fox"

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:48 pm

Good call man - I don't think it's a case of wrong or right here. You did the responsible thing, and scored a nice weapon. As for the ID, I realize now that I was thinking of the difference between the Sig Pro and the regular P-series. Damn! I'm usually much better than that.

You're also correct in saying that PD's get a ton of "found guns" all the time and what they do (or should do but many times don't) is fire a few rounds out of it, map and log the markings on the projectile and casing, put it into the NCIC data base and forget about it.

Whether they did or didn't do ballistics on it, you made every effort to do it correctly and I don't think that leaves much room for questioning. If it was used in a crime, it was the person who is responsible not the gun.

Nice find man, I think that's awesome. I'd still get it refinished and have the springs replaced for function.

9 rounds in the mag probably is due to the size of the mag and not related to Brady Bill. 10 rounds was the limit under that stupid law, and most brands stuck to it allowing their weapons to legally hold 10+1. Smaller weapons can't hold 10 sometimes so it didn't apply. It was a dumb-ass law anyway and could only be enforced on the sale of new guns for those years.

Anyway, I think that's awesome - if you're into shooting it'd be like a $600 find! Sweet! $\:D/$ I also think the pre-1900 bottles and such are pretty sweet too.

ROV looking for weapons in the Sound - I can't even imagine how many there are, but I'm sure it's WAY more than any of us would care to count.

Good thread!!! I like hearing what people come up with.

So far in my short time diving the only thing I've found was an amazing mentor, a few great dive buddies, lots of advice and helpful knowledge, and a sweet ass dive club!!! Couldn't ask for more!!! $\:D/$

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:04 pm

So far in my short time diving the only thing I've found was an amazing mentor, a few great dive buddies, lots of advice and helpful knowledge, and a sweet ass dive club!!! Couldn't ask for more!!!

That is true...

The sig is as you know a premium weapon, as far as function "besides the bluing rubbing off" it fires very well.. It was in fresh water so the only corrosion was in the cast metal sites. Plus it was buried in silt, gotta love wd40

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