Northwest Dive Club

Was reviewing Dive flag requirements.

For recreational diving, I see no requirements for a shore diver to display a flag.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-37-535 does apply to commercial operations however.

I DO see requirements for boats to stay away from dive flags.
http://www.boat-ed.com/wa/course/p4-11_ ... ipment.htm

The comments I have heard regarding dive flags near shore is that boaters have no idea what to do about them.
I think there are places I would use a flag if I really thought it would make it safer for me.

IS THERE A WAY TO EDUCATE BOATERS SO DIVERS ARE SAFER?
IS IT A PROBLEM?

Diver alert magazine said (March/April 2009) said there was a rash of boat/diver injuries on the east coast recently

Mike

You're looking in the wrong place for the shore diving requirements--mostly, those are in local codes. County or city, as appropriate.

I know City of Seattle has a requirement, and so does Spokane, so they are pretty widespread.

For what it's worth, here is the Snohomish County Codes pertaining to Dive flags etc. This code does not pertain to Salt Water Diving.

Title 12 Recreational Water use Activities
Chapter 12.04

12.12.050 Diver Flags

Individuals may maintain divers' flags which shall be used only in the manner and at such places as are authorized by this code. A divers' flag shall be a red flag, five units of measurement on the hoist by six units of measurement on the fly, with a white stripe having a width of one unit of measurement crossing the red diagonally. The flag shall have a stiffener to make it stand out from the pole or mast. A unit of measurement shall not be less than two inches.

(Res. adopted June 30, 1975

12.28.030 Water Users - Divers

All persons engaging in diving shall mark the water areas where the operations are being conducted. When the operations are being conducted during daylight hours, the water areas shall be marked with one or more divers' flags of sufficient size to be visible at a distance of not less than 100 yards. Where such operations are conducted during hours of darkness, the water areas shall be marked with one or more artificially illuminated marker buoys of sufficient size and illumination to be visible at a distance of not less than 100 yards. No person may display diver flags or marker buoys except during the time and in the water areas where diving operations are being conducted.

(Res. adopted June 30, 1975; Amended Ord. 99-098,$ 10, Dec. 8,1999, Eff date Dec. 20, 1999)

The words May is permissive and the words Shall is mandatory.

Thanks Pez.

So how do you normally float a flag? Do you tow it, or anchor it?

I don't use flags. But if I did, I'd anchor it and stay within 200' of it.

This thread about Boating Rules is worth reading too.

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 679#p49075

As far as I'm concerned use your best judgement. If there are or may be boats I'll drag one, thought I see it getting buzzed alot. I haven't taken the manditory boter ed classes but I'd think it should be in there.

As a kid my dad made me aware of steering clear of dive flags though I never did know the legal distance. I just didn't want to hurt anyone. But my ex-marine dad taught us to be responsible.

I was almost run over in 4' of water 2 years ago by a drunk on a wave runner and as he circled us I was about to jump him when he got the picture and left. Lucky for him cause I'd of had me a new PWC.... Either that or a new sunken wreck to dive

I find it interesting that the Washington state rules say that the diver down flag is not acceptable for boat use and the alfa flag is required. I would say that most boats I see have the diver down flag and very few use the alfa flag. Even worse fewer people know what an alfa flag is than know what the diver down flag is. It also sez you shouldn't display it unless there is a diver actively in the water and allot of boats have it painted on the boat.

I guess what it comes down to is most boaters have no concept of what either flag means, There is no enforcement and no effort to educate boaters. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

Growing up around boats I never knew what an alpha flag was till I began diving.

Most any boat I'm on fly both flags. The Alpha is the required one for the most part.

NWDC paging Scott Boyd... Scott, you got any USCG info for us?

The alfa flag is the approved flag under international maritime regulations and the only one recognized in commercial shipping lanes and outside the US. Like so many things recognized as standard by the rest of the world we suborn Americans have pretty well ignored it. I was totally ignorant of it until a couple of years ago when I started to look into the dive flag regulations.

I fly both from my boat. If I recall, all salt water areas require the alpha flag and some jurisdictions require both.

Sounder wrote:Most any boat I'm on fly both flags. The Alpha is the required one for the most part.

NWDC paging Scott Boyd... Scott, you got any USCG info for us?

The Blue and White "Alpha" flag is an alternate day shape that is allowed in the USCG Colregs for smaller dive vessels to declare that they are "Restricted in Ability to Maneuver" due to dive operations. This gives the boat special privleges under the Rules of the Road. So officially, the Alpha flag is the only one recognized by the USCG rules and International rules as well. Puget Sound does operate under the International Rules of the Road (they are not considered Inland Waters). At night (like tonight's awesome dive on the SS Burton), a dive vessel displays her Red, White, Red RAM lights (Restricted in Ability to Maneuver) in place of the Alpha Flag.

The Red and white "diver down" flag is recognized and written into several sets of local laws (Mason County for example). Smart dive boats fly both flags as many recreational boaters have no idea what the Alpha Flag stands for (or what the rules of the road are for that matter).

The day shape is black shapes dimond, ball, dimond.

ScottBoyd wrote:At night (like tonight's awesome dive on the SS Burton), a dive vessel displays her Red, White, Red RAM lights (Restricted in Ability to Maneuver) in place of the Alpha Flag.

I did not know that! Thanks Scott.

This is all correct, However when you read the regulations, a,”rigid replica” ( of the alpha flag) not less than one meter in height shall be exhibited . . . Rule 25 (d).
I doubt anyone Will fault you for just a diver down FLAG, but if you get in an accident, it would be a good idea to display the right shapes/symbols.
Always best to let the other guy be the screw up.

I appreciate anyone who flies either-except in the middle of a narrow channel. . .

Oomingmak wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:09 pm not less than one meter in height

I always hated the vague wording of this. Does this mean the top of the flag must be a meter above the water? Or measured from the bottom of the flag? Or does it mean the flag itself needs to be a meter in size from top to bottom? I've never been able to find official clarification of this anywhere - if someone knows the answer I would love to hear.

I very much hope this means the top of your flag should be not less than one meter above the water because anything else seems unreasonably difficult for a small skiff.