Techreational

[BASSMAN]

Techreational
Do you like this term?
How would you define this term?
And is there actual training?

[Joshua Smith]

"No"


"No."

[Grateful Diver]

It's a marketing term ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[LCF]

I respectfully disagree. I think it's a useful term for precisely the kind of diving I do a lot of these days. I would define it as diving within MDLs, but that is heavily flavored by technical thinking and which may make use of some of the same kinds of gear configurations. For example, diving Waterman's Wall in the 100 to 120 fsw range, using a light helium mix and doubles.

And yes, it is taught . . . The Rec 2 and Rec 3 classes in the UTD curriculum do exactly that. I have taken both.

[Peter Guy]

A "marketing term?" By whom?

Do I like the term? Yes -- I use it frequently. I'd not heard it before me dear sweet wife used it to describe some of the diving we do.

Definition -- The "gray area" between "PADI (or other) Recreational Diving" and "NAUI (or other) 'Technical' Diving" which would include deeper dives (>100<150 FSW) which might be done on He blends of 30-30 or 25-25 (or thereabouts) and may include some backgas deco obligations. Dives that SHOULD require some of the aspects of "Techincal Diving" such as REAL gas planning (can we do the Boundary Line on HP100's given our SAC rates and maintaining MGR including what we might need for an additional 5 minutes on the ascent); actual planning of the Deco obligation; etc. IF the important definition of "Technical Diving" is the requirement to fix all problems where they occur (i.e., underwater) then the important definition of "Techreational Diving" may be it is better to fix your problems where they occur but you might be able to go directly to the surface however the risk may exist -- unlike the definition of "Recreational Diving" where you always have the option of going directly to the surface to fix a problem with little or no risk.

Training -- Depends on your risk aversion! I would think the minimum training for doing "Techreational Profiles" would be the Essentials/DIR-F/Intro To Tech teachings. I believe you need both physical and mental skills -- both of which can be learned without formal training but for most people, it is a shorter route to have the formal training. Physical skills -- ability to hold stops; manipulate valves & other equipment; do air shares & maintain position.
Mental skills -- ability to plan for gas and deco and perhaps make changes to the plan on the fly (either that or have a computer that will actually DO a deco schedule if you wish).

Oh, and I think basic Nitrox is a must AND some training for He is also very high up there -- both of which require a class.

[spatman]

to me, "techreactional" is just another label applied arbitrarily. there are enough labels in this sport.

why don't we just go back to defining what technical diving is? that's always a fun discussion.

[Pez7378]

Well,

Recreational diving is NEVER technical, on the other hand, Technical diving is almost always recreational.

Rechnical diving.....No.

Techreational diving......Maybe.

It's a 'tweener.

[ljjames]

we coined the term 18 years ago to describe basically everything most of us in dubs, ccr, etc are doing for 'recreation'.

techincal diving is a term i save for those pushing the envelope, but are not doing it for real scientific purpose or work.

i would call myself a techreational
diver now, i dive with a lot of cool toys that allow me to dive deeper, longer, and more enjoyably. a long time ago when we were pushing the local envelope and were the first non-commercial divers on some of the wrecks, and i was doing it as a part of my job per se i would have called what we were doing 'tech' dives. now i refer to everything outside the recreational limits as "extended range" diving. i think its a more apt description.

[dsteding]

we coined the term 18 years ago to describe basically everything most of us in dubs, ccr, etc are doing for 'recreation'.

.

You were diving CCR 18 years ago?

[ljjames]

we coined the term 18 years ago to describe basically everything most of us in dubs, ccr, etc are doing for 'recreation'.

.

You were diving CCR 18 years ago?

oh, i'm sorry, my first ccr dive was in 1994 so i guess thats only 15 years. i was not referring to then, i was referring to now with regards to calling things being done now 'techreational' sorry if my writing was confusing.

[Phineas Gage]

Which label means I'm going to have a fun time diving? 'cause that's the kind I'm interested in.

[defied]

Scooby Diving!

[Phineas Gage]

Scooby Diving!

ruh roh! rooba rivin'?

[loanwolf]

we coined the term 18 years ago to describe basically everything most of us in dubs, ccr, etc are doing for 'recreation'.

technical diving is a term i save for those pushing the envelope, but are not doing it for real scientific purpose or work.

i would call myself a techreational
diver now, i dive with a lot of cool toys that allow me to dive deeper, longer, and more enjoyably. a long time ago when we were pushing the local envelope and were the first non-commercial divers on some of the wrecks, and i was doing it as a part of my job per se i would have called what we were doing 'tech' dives. now i refer to everything outside the recreational limits as "extended range" diving. i think its a more apt description.

First thing I have to say is you got to like a beautiful lady who likes and knows how to use her cool toys .

Laura is right, the term technical diving is still recreational diving. All the technical agencies are still recreational diving agencies as the diving is not of a commercial type and the divers are not certified by a commercial agency. It all when you look at the big picture comes down to money, liability, and insurance no mater what you call it recreational, technical, or commercial. A dive boat operation has to make sure that the divers are certified by a recognized agency so their insurance will cover them if their is an accident. This is also true with most personal forms of insurance ie health and life. The insurance industry recognizes the most dive agency training programs. Their are a few you will run into in other parts of the world that are not recognized internationally (something to keep in mind). Another good example is if you join the Mountaineers and want to do climbing trips with them you have to go through the certification for the different levels of trips. It is not just for pure safety it is legal reason first safety reasons second. This is an ugly truth that our world revolves on today. As an US Instructor my insurance is higher than any other nationality in the world. Even when I go back to Japan and teach I still have to pay US rates for my insurance just because I am an American even when in foreign countries (sucks).

Weather you call it techreational or what ever, it is still recreational diving none commercial. So don't sweat it. Recreational diving is actually divided into a 3 tear system, Recreational, Technical, and Expedition Diving. But it is still all recreational diving.

[dsteding]

Laura is right, the term technical diving is still recreational diving. All the technical agencies are still recreational diving agencies as the diving is not of a commercial type and the divers are not certified by a commercial agency. It all when you look at the big picture comes down to money, liability, and insurance no mater what you call it recreational, technical, or commercial.

*****

Weather you call it techreational or what ever, it is still recreational diving none commercial. So don't sweat it. Recreational diving is actually divided into a 3 tear system, Recreational, Technical, and Expedition Diving. But it is still all recreational diving.

I could see your point if this was a debate about recreational diving somehow being commercial. Maybe comerciational diving? But, your logic falls apart with the "3 tier" approach you argue things are at the end. I think the term "techreational" is somewhere in the gray area between the two first tiers you suggest exist. Besides that, I don't think anyone is debating that recreational diving is equated with commercial diving . . .

[loanwolf]

I could see your point if this was a debate about recreational diving somehow being commercial. Maybe comerciational diving? But, your logic falls apart with the "3 tier" approach you argue things are at the end. I think the term "techreational" is somewhere in the gray area between the two first tiers you suggest exist. Besides that, I don't think anyone is debating that recreational diving is equated with commercial diving . . .

I was not trying to debate anything just clarify a little for those who may not totally understand what the differences are with the terms and agencies. I guess i did a poor job sorry. Been celebrating today.

[ljjames]

this debate is why I thought long ago that we should get rid of the descriptive term "technical" diving.

Take IT for example... Someone who works in IT can be classified as "technical" or "non-technical". Its very clear the delineation between the two.

There is not that clear line between "recreational" and "technical" diving, because they are encompassed by the same overall term. Recreational diving.

Hence my desire from very early on to call it "Extended Range" diving. (obviously that didn't go very far)

It's beyond the range of the standard recreational diver: most simply described to the newbie diver or non-diver as "beyond 130' depth, or beyond the No Decompression Limits, but it is not professional/commercial/scientific".

Otherwise known as "how do I describe myself when some new/non-diver walks up on the beach when i'm wearing doubles and asks if I'm a commercial diver in a manner that is very very clear"

There are even 'recreational' rebreathers hitting the market now, with "max depth" ratings in the 100' to 130' range. To confuse the issue more, they are labeled "recreational" in the marketing But the standard Meg, the inspiration, evolution, rEvo, etc... are not necessarily titled "Technical" rebreathers... They are just 'rebreathers'.

A set of double tanks is not in itself considered "technical" dive gear. nor is a scooter, a canister light, and in reality, nor is a rebreather. They are just "dive gear".

It is the dive itself that is either within the scope of the recreational dive tables, or not.

Originally there had to be a label. Technical was coined if memory serves me by Menduno et al (hence the Aquacorps show being called TEK 93, 94, 95, etc..) it was a bit of an ego stroke in my opinion, but it also gave insurance companies a tangible "thing" to see when I was trying to explain that I wanted to insure myself as an instructor and my dive shop for things that did not fall into the standardly recognized territory of "recreational" SCUBA. Lloyds of London was the only company who would insure us in the good ole' days.

Again, techreational came out as a bit of tongue in cheek-ness pointed directly at those who wanna wear all the gear and be all badass, but 9 times out of 10 are doing dives within the recreational range as recognized by those printed numbers on NAUI/PADI/SSI/etc.. dive tables, and once a month or so do some longer dive that may require some decompression.

Technical is indeed a "marketing" term

Techreational is and was always intended as a bit of a joke, intended to describe ourselves with some levity. We did fun stuff like that in the old days... yanno.. poked fun at ourselves....

Unless you are teaching, (and then i call us 'diving professional' in the recreational realm) we are all "recreational divers", unless our job description includes "weld this widget to that thingamabob" or "count x number underwater acres of eelgrass" and garner a portion of our income from said tasks.

*sigh* time to stop flogging this seahorse

as you can see here, aquacorps was titled "the journal for experienced divers" not "technical" divers

http://homepage.mac.com/ljjames/scuba/Deep.gif

[ljjames]

Which label means I'm going to have a fun time diving? 'cause that's the kind I'm interested in.

MONKEY diving!!!!!!!

(doug!! i'm indirectly pushing scooter-crack, now matt just needs to mention a charter and thread is done, right?) *grin*

[dsteding]

(doug!! i'm indirectly pushing scooter-crack, now matt just needs to mention a charter and thread is done, right?) *grin*

Dammit Matt, where are you

Laura, that Aquacorps cover is priceless.

[CaptnJack]

"No"


"No."

Well I'll be. Cats playing with dogs. I can't stand it either

I figured it was defined as a "deco" dive where if all hell breaks loose and you blow to the surface in a minute or two you aren't going to die before EMS can even cut your suit off.

[Grateful Diver]

to me, "techreactional" is just another label applied arbitrarily. there are enough labels in this sport.

why don't we just go back to defining what technical diving is? that's always a fun discussion.

I think there are too many labels ... and those who enjoy using them are almost always looking for some way to differentiate themselves from "the herd". For the most part labels are more divisive than descriptive. That's why I generally don't like 'em.

Why don't we just go diving and quit trying to coin terms to let everyone else know why we're somehow "different" than someone else.

And Peter, to answer your question ... "by whom" ... Google the term and see what you come up with.

- Virginia Scuba is Washington's only Techreational Dive Center.
- Tech Diver Direct is your Techreational Dive Center.
- OCEANIC EXCURSION BCD The Excursion Bcd is Oceanic's techreational Bcd.
- Techreational liveaboard | Jordan
- Techreational Dive Association Cleveland

Looks like marketing to me ... what do these services and products offer that's "unique" and different than their competitors?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

"No"


"No."

Well I'll be. Cats playing with dogs. I can't stand it either

I figured it was defined as a "deco" dive where if all hell breaks loose and you blow to the surface in a minute or two you aren't going to die before EMS can even cut your suit off.

Twice in the same weekend, even. We're talking "Behold a pale horse.." here.
:looking:

[Grateful Diver]

Dude ... better pale horses than dead ones ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spatman]

I think there are too many labels ... and those who enjoy using them are almost always looking for some way to differentiate themselves from "the herd". For the most part labels are more divisive than descriptive. That's why I generally don't like 'em.

amen, bob.

"No"


"No."

Well I'll be. Cats playing with dogs. I can't stand it either

Twice in the same weekend, even. We're talking "Behold a pale horse.." here.
:looking:

you guys need to stop that, because you're freaking me out. the very fabric of the universe is unraveling.

[Burntchef]

well they are allready same ocean diving, soon enough maybe same lake