My mission, should I choose to accept it (which isn't really an option), is to keep the wife as warm as possible (what most of us would consider too warm) underwater. I am now considering argon for her suit inflation following GD's recommendation and after knowing a couple people who use it, I'm leaning very heavily toward it for her (maybe me too).
How do folks attach the bottle to a back plate or tank? What size bottle do you run? What special considerations for an argon rig should I keep in mind (do they have an argon-specific 1st stage etc)? Anything I should know about it that isn't intuitive?
Most important, what degree of difference (in feeling of warmth, not necessarily degree numbers) do you notice when you use it? Mrs. Sounder is fairly petite and becomes cold quickly & easily.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
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Is she using a backplate? Attaching a 6cf argon bottle to the left side is easy!
I use a ~1ft piece of 2" webbing, available in many fine color coordinated colors from Seattle Fabrics and others + a 1.5 ft length of 5/16" bungie. Also need a short SS bolt, nylock nut and a couple of flat washers.
Fold the webbing over into a loop around the bottle and burn a hole in it with a soldering iron. Bolt the loop onto the BP one hole up on the left side. Tie the bungie in a loop and girth hitch it through the lowermost hole.
To install, slide the bottle through the webbing, valve down. Then twist the bungie 2x around the valve and attach the argon reg. You will probably need to adjust the bungie length so that the bottom of the valve hangs right about at the base of her tank. Lower and the reg gets alot of abuse getting geared up.
I bought my entire argon set-up from TDL, Tech Diving Limited, via the internet. I do have an argon specific first stage/cylinder valve - it is all one piece. There is no knob - it is always on, so less to get in the way, and/or break off. I think it is great! The cylinder has two stainless steel compression bands which have one ring per band. Also have two d-rings, which are used to attach the backplate to the rings on the compression bands. It has a button spg. I use a 14cu 2150 pressure cylinder (I was told it is harder to get a full argon fill with a 3000 cylinder, which the 6 cu and 13 cu are). A fill lasts a long time, but I do not use my drysuit as a bc. I do not notice I am wearing the cylinder while diving. I did first try it on my left side, but moved it to my right, since the only thing going on on my right side is my light canister.
Rich
Last edited by Diver_C on Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
I use an Al LP14 bottle mounted to my backgas. It has a standard DIN valve on it, and I use a US4 first stage. I'd recommend a decent first stage reg that you can find service for (I know I can get mine serviced from anyone that deals with Apeks). I believe its also recommended to detune the IP down to 90 psi or so.
It'll get you a lot of dives without needing a refill. I do recommend a button pressure gauge so you know contents though and don't accidentally run out...
I have a booster at home so getting a 3000 psi fill of argon is easy. The 6cf bottles are nice because they are so small. I use mine with a single hp80 on up to double 100s. 3-4 dives off one bottle depending on depth mostly.
I have a cheap Apeks piston reg (~$80), a button gauge, and a OPV. You want a first stage on it without any second stage, but otherwise a cheap one works fine. An unbalanced piston will supposedly virtually never need service YMMV. I let my warranty lapse and will have it overhauled when it poops out.
Larger bottles or LP bottles may be more appropriate to go longer in between fills or if the shop you're patronizing can't boost to 3000 psi.
I do not suggest any metal to metal connections. If something gets all screwed up, tangled or whatever - being able to cut the system free might save her life.
I use the lp 14 with a sherwood first stage and a 1 3/4" spg on a short hose. (I can not read the buton gauge anymore) It is attached to my tanks with a pony tamer. Argon valve down on right pony down on left. I have been useing it two years now and love it.
I do have a question though. If I use a regular dedicated first stage do I need the OPV? And if so why.
That's funny!!! One of the funniest motto's I've heard for them is "Spare Air - so you can run out of air TWICE!"
There are mixed opinions, and of course there are testimonials one after the next on their site, but after going OOA I assume I'm not thinking clearly, may have inhaled water, and who knows what else happened (mask, buoyancy, whatever)... buddy shoving a long hose in my mouth is looking pretty damn good.
Ok, back to Argon - how much warmer are you?
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I did a 106 minute dive last weekend *not* using Argon and I was shivering at the end of the dive...
Tonight I'm getting a button SPG for my argon bottle and making certain I keep it full so I can do a couple of full suit flushes before every dive...
Oh yeah, that's another thing that helps... Inflate your drysuit with argon on land and then dump it overboard a few times before getting in. That helps remove the air and replace it with argon. One of the benefits of a bigger bottle like an LP14 is that you can do this without worrying about running OOAr at depth...
When I do suit flushes with Argon on the surface I do get a noticable bump in how warm I feel on the surface in the drysuit...
Gee, thanks everyone. All this talk of argon has gotten me interested . . .
More money to spend.
I have an extra first stage (Chris . . . the repo man may be coming), seems like all I need is a OPV, a way to mount the bottle and the bottle itself.
Someone mentioned the lower pressure 14 cu bottles versus the smaller 6 cu or 13 cu foot 3000 psi bottles regarding getting them filled. What is everyone's experience with this locally, and say, in BC?
Its been a year since I was in BC, I would say at that time argon availability was spotty. Sechelt did not have any last time I asked. Nanaimo and Victoria have 3000 psi argon.
Most places with argon already have a booster for He and/or PP fills so they just add an Ar supply and pump to rated bottle pressures.
A bigger issue in BC is how far away you are from the available source, not whether they can boost it.
Boosters can be built for so little, I'm surprised its not more available, esp. up there.
Richard
PS another option when you're far from an argon source is to PROPERLY LABEL an HP80 and transfill to smaller bottles from that. We did this on a 1 week trip to Barkely and it worked great. 80cf was more than enough for 4 people, 3 dives a day. I think we were down around 2000 psi at the end of the week.
dsteding wrote:
Someone mentioned the lower pressure 14 cu bottles versus the smaller 6 cu or 13 cu foot 3000 psi bottles regarding getting them filled. What is everyone's experience with this locally, and say, in BC?
I can get about 8-10 recreational dives off of an LP14 without needing a fill.
Any shop with the ability to boost T cylinders should be able to fill Ar to 3000 psi, though...
I use argon too and found my comfort level in winter went from 30-35 minutes and wanting to get out (despite lots of gas and time left) to 50-60 minutes before I'm getting cold. Like the difference between standing in front of an air conditioner on full and in a warm tropical breeze.
I use a 16 cu pony bottle too and it lasts about 6-8 hours; dive time depends on who I'm diving with, usualy 6-7 dives. A fill typically costs between $6 -8 so it's well worth it, for me at least. I have no problem getting a full argon fill; TL Sea has it, NWSD also carries it as well as 5th D in Issaquah.
Thanks Valerie - how do you rig your 16cu' argon bottle? That seems like a large bottle, but it also sounds helpful to have so much. Do you fill & dump before the dive too as Lamont does? Does that large of a bottle throw off your trim? Thanks.
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