Thoughts on filling ones own tanks

[pensacoladiver]

I have an opportunity to get my hands on a Bauer JR II-E1 compressor with filtration system. Just wondering if anyone has ever had their own compressor to fill their tanks and what issues they have had to deal with?

Thanks for any info!!!
Chad

[Matt S.]

There are a million posts about that on ScubaBoard, I'd start there. Tech diving forums like Deco Stop probably have a lot of discussion too.

[spatman]

if i'm not mistaken, vbcoachchris is a local instructor/diver who blends his own. i do know there are a few other members of this board who own compressors as well. i'm sure some of them will have some good advice, when they see this thread.

[dsteding]

Is it the one listed here:

http://www.rayzplace.com/compressor/bauer.html

If it is the right price, I'd consider it--if you meet the following:

1) You dive a fair amount and your LDS is inconvenient.

2) You are relatively handy with things

and

3) You have some intent to dive mixed gases.

I've thought about a compressor, but my LDS is damn convenient, and, quite frankly, Matt's is cheaper and easier for me. But, a 3 cfm compressor, a mixing stick for nitrox, and a small storage bank would be pretty nice if you are diving nitrox in an area where you cannot get it easily.

In terms of cost, you'll be into things for ~$5000 or so minimum, I'd be interested in what type of filtration is on the compressor now and what you want--filter towers are rather expensive, so whether it is a good deal will depend on price and what comes with it.

I don't think a compressor saves much money--it does add convenience, which is worth something. The one exception is if you are technical diving--there the price of helium is high enough that you can see significant cost savings blending your own.

[boydski]

Hi Chad,

There are quite a few divers in the area that have compressors and fill their own tanks. I used to use one of the small Bauer compressors like the one you are interested in to fill SCBA's. They are nice little compressors, but are very slow (~ 3 CFM).

Bigger compressors are better (you can get 5-6 CFM with a single phase 220 Volt compressor), especially if you have lots of tanks to fill, but they tend to cost more.

I have a Rix SA-6B compressor in my garage, along with a MasterLine Booster. The Rix is nice because its Oil Free.

Richard (RJAck) seems to be MIA, but he has an oil lubricated compressor that works well for him.

Scott Christopher (vbcoachchris) has a HUGE compressor in his garage (better than a lot of dive shops).

Doug is right. You really won't save any money pumping your own Breathing Air, but it sure is convenient.

[CaptnJack]

Richard (RJAck) seems to be MIA, but he has an oil lubricated compressor that works well for him.

Doug is right. You really won't save any money pumping your own Breathing Air, but it sure is convenient.

HEY!! I'm not MIA I was actually (cave) diving in NFL! (I will post a writeup soon)

I would not invest in a compressor to save money either I like mine but its kinda like a boat. You have to want one for its intrinsic value not to "save money on fills" or "save on charters" etc.

[Dusty2]

I have to chime in with the others here. They are nice for the convenience factor but by the time you factor in the filter maintenance, oil, and other maintenance factors it will probably cost more than shop fills. I talked to the local Coltri sub rep and he advised against it and he has a reason to promote them. They are only really cost effective if you do allot of remote diving or to mount on a boat unless you live to far from a safe fill site. If you live in one of those places where the LDS's fill station maintenance is questionable, and there are several around, then by all means do your own for your own safety and peace of mind.

[CaptnJack]

I have an opportunity to get my hands on a Bauer JR II-E1 compressor with filtration system. Just wondering if anyone has ever had their own compressor to fill their tanks and what issues they have had to deal with?

Thanks for any info!!!
Chad

Does the shop in Oak Harbor have nitrox? If they don't that would be about the only good reason to get one IMO.

Having more tanks to make fewer trips to the shop is probably more effcient than having your own pump.

[dsteding]

Having more tanks to make fewer trips to the shop is probably more effcient than having your own pump.

And, having tons of tanks, your own compressor, a bank, and a boat means you need a bigger garage . . .

[Dusty2]

Having more tanks to make fewer trips to the shop is probably more effcient than having your own pump.

And, having tons of tanks, your own compressor, a bank, and a boat means you need a bigger garage . . .

[Sounder]

Having more tanks to make fewer trips to the shop is probably more effcient than having your own pump.

This is exactly the reason I have as many tanks as I do. When I brought up the idea of a compressor to Mrs. Sounder, her response was "why don't you just buy a bunch more 130s and another couple sets of doubles instead?"

I love my wife. :luv:

[dsteding]

This is exactly the reason I have as many tanks as I do.

No, you have all those tanks because you have a tank acquisition problem. You can't help yourself.

[pensacoladiver]

Guys,

Thanks for all the input!!!

The dive shop in Oak Harbor is GREAT and convient to me. The price on the compressor would be pretty hard to beat... as close to free as one could imagine... basically gas money to pick it up. NO, I'm not gonna tell anyone where its at. :-)

I really have no plans currently to mix Nitrox or any other gases, although now that it is mentioned, it might be something I look into. Oak Harbor does not currently provide nitrox, so I have to drive into Anacortes when I want to go that route.

I suppose a better question would have been "if you can get a compressor for free, would it be cost effective to fill your own tanks, considering filter changes, etc...

The filtration system on the unit is the one that came from the factory. The only real part I am apprehensive about IS filtration. High pressure gas, etc, etc... is a no brainer for me, but I do worry about ensuring I have the proper amount of filtration for the stuff that going to be sustaining my life at 80 FSW!!! :-)

Thanks again for the responses, I appreciate all of them.

[dsteding]

I suppose a better question would have been "if you can get a compressor for free, would it be cost effective to fill your own tanks, considering filter changes, etc...

I dunno. See below re filtration, but a free compressor is a free compressor. I'd be happy to buy it from you for ten times the price of gas to pick it up, sight unseen. Just sayin'.

The filtration system on the unit is the one that came from the factory. The only real part I am apprehensive about IS filtration. High pressure gas, etc, etc... is a no brainer for me, but I do worry about ensuring I have the proper amount of filtration for the stuff that going to be sustaining my life at 80 FSW!!! :-)

Richard knows filtration well, but you may want to upgrade the system depending on age--a single filtration tower is in the ~$700 range, figure $1000 by the time you get it up and running. OCA or dual filtration towers are about twice that--in my limited research, I came to the conclusion I'd want two filter towers on any system I owned.

At 3 cfm, you'd want some sort of storage bank, the idea being you fill the bank with the compressor and then fill tanks off the bank. Figure ~$2000 for a small one that can fill single cylinders. Nice thing is you could bank pre-blended nitrox and only run the compressor to top the bank off.

Finally, if you go that route, you'd want a heavy duty compressor--and I'm not sure this is one of them.

Let me know if you want gas money . . .

[Sounder]

This is exactly the reason I have as many tanks as I do.

No, you have all those tanks because you have a tank acquisition problem. You can't help yourself.

I could quit anytime I wanted to.

[CaptnJack]

There ain't no such thing as free. I am assuming this thing has alot of hours on it and needs work?

The Junior has a small chamber on it which takes $30-40 pre-packaged filter cartridges. Those last about 8-9 hours in summer or 20 hours in winter. To know when to change it takes a $100 humidity sensor, otherwise you are just guessing. To get real piece of mind you need another filter and that at least $600+. Air analysis every once in awhile is going to cost you $120 a sample of so. Oil is $20 a change every 50-100 hours. These costs add up...

Skip the bank, its not a continuous duty compressor. It will take about 25mins to fill an AL80 a bit more for a hp100, that time will add up since you'll have to be in the garage watching the tanks and draining the condensate every 15mins. If you are just pumping air there's is almost no way its going to be easier or cheaper than your LDS right there in Oak Harbor. Esp. if you aren't particularly handy and need professional help with stuck valves or similar issues which crop up from time to time.

I might be interested in buying it and overhauling it myself as a backup unit if you decline the chance to buy it.

Richard

[pensacoladiver]

I don't think I would want to get into all the storage aspects of larger tanks (and Bauer's website specifically states this compressor is not suitable for filling large storage tanks).

It is however small and light enough that it could very easliy fit into my boat for the extended trips I am planning on making this summer. With it being 110v, power is no problem.

As far as filling a tank, I assume at 3cfm, it would take about 43 minutes to fill a 130 tank (from empty). Hopefully my math is right here. If I am missing something, lemme know.

Intitutively, one would think that as long as the air is coming from a fresh place (the same stuff I breath standing outside my garage) and since it's not gas powered (no CO to worry about from the exhaust), filtration would not be a huge issue. Of course, this would be my first compressor and thats why I'm seeking advice. I am sure I am missing something.

Chad

[Paulicarp]

This is exactly the reason I have as many tanks as I do.

No, you have all those tanks because you have a tank acquisition problem. You can't help yourself.

I could quit anytime I wanted to.

Sounder, I've been meaning to have a talk with you...

Here's a little helpful info:

Treatment Programs for Addiction
Perhaps you, or someone you know, has tried to break a nitrogen saturation addiction or high pressure steel tank addiction, and failed to do so despite the best intentions. Addiction treatment programs, well-meaning people and willpower may not have been enough to bring recovery from diving related addiction.

Addiction is a neurological disease - not a mental or moral problem. Since 1935, Schick Shaver Hospital addiction treatment programs have been helping tens of thousands of men and women lose the craving for salvage, cave exploration and appreciation of saltwater critters. The hospital’s addiction treatment programs are successful in no more than one atmoshphere of understanding and acceptance.

Staffed by caring, compassionate physicians, nurses and counselors, our addiction treatment programs recognize that addiction is “a compulsive physiological need for a habit forming substance” (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 3rd Edition). Therefore, the person suffering from tank addiction, nitrogen addiction or another diving related addiction is ill and in need of medical treatment. You know what it's like to be "tanked" and our treatment programs provide a researched, medical alternative to many of the other treatment modalities available. Addiction treatment can be completed discreetly, with just a 10-day rehab and two, two-day follow-up visits to "the chamber".

It's your life, we just want to give it back to you.

call 1-800-DIV-ERDN

[dsteding]

Intitutively, one would think that as long as the air is coming from a fresh place (the same stuff I breath standing outside my garage) and since it's not gas powered (no CO to worry about from the exhaust), filtration would not be a huge issue. Of course, this would be my first compressor and thats why I'm seeking advice. I am sure I am missing something.

Chad

Well, not really. The big thing with filtration is to (a) remove water from the air (keeping your tanks from rusting; and (b) remove contaminants generated by the compressor--you have lubrication oil being used at high temperatures, and the potential for all sorts of nasties, including carbon monoxide from partial combustion. So, good filtration is a must if you want clean, dry, predictable breathing gas.

[Sounder]

This is exactly the reason I have as many tanks as I do.

No, you have all those tanks because you have a tank acquisition problem. You can't help yourself.

I could quit anytime I wanted to.

Sounder, I've been meaning to have a talk with you...

Here's a little helpful info:

Treatment Programs for Addiction
Perhaps you, or someone you know, has tried to break a nitrogen saturation addiction or high pressure steel tank addiction, and failed to do so despite the best intentions. Addiction treatment programs, well-meaning people and willpower may not have been enough to bring recovery from diving related addiction.

Addiction is a neurological disease - not a mental or moral problem. Since 1935, Schick Shaver Hospital addiction treatment programs have been helping tens of thousands of men and women lose the craving for salvage, cave exploration and appreciation of saltwater critters. The hospital’s addiction treatment programs are successful in no more than one atmoshphere of understanding and acceptance.

Staffed by caring, compassionate physicians, nurses and counselors, our addiction treatment programs recognize that addiction is “a compulsive physiological need for a habit forming substance” (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 3rd Edition). Therefore, the person suffering from tank addiction, nitrogen addiction or another diving related addiction is ill and in need of medical treatment. You know what it's like to be "tanked" and our treatment programs provide a researched, medical alternative to many of the other treatment modalities available. Addiction treatment can be completed discreetly, with just a 10-day rehab and two, two-day follow-up visits to "the chamber".

It's your life, we just want to give it back to you.

call 1-800-DIV-ERDN

I appreciate your concern, but I really don't have a problem. I like the way all those tanks look in my garage; I like the way they make me feel. I can control it - I only buy tanks on weekends, and I only carry two tanks at once except the rare times I take 3 or 4... though sometimes I have more than that if I'm driving, but I can handle my tanks. I can drive just fine even after piling 8-10 tanks in my truck.

Really though, I could quit anytime I wanted to... I just don't want to yet.

I do appreciate your concern, but you should really mind your own business. I don't have a problem - I'm totally in control. I'm totally functional. It's those other people who are the real tank addicts. I'm not like them.

[pensacoladiver]

Thanks Jack, that is the kind of info I was seeking.

[CaptnJack]

Can everyone hijacking this thread stop so some legitimate safety issues can be communicated here?

I don't think I would want to get into all the storage aspects of larger tanks (and Bauer's website specifically states this compressor is not suitable for filling large storage tanks).

It is however small and light enough that it could very easliy fit into my boat for the extended trips I am planning on making this summer. With it being 110v, power is no problem.

As far as filling a tank, I assume at 3cfm, it would take about 43 minutes to fill a 130 tank (from empty). Hopefully my math is right here. If I am missing something, lemme know.

Intitutively, one would think that as long as the air is coming from a fresh place (the same stuff I breath standing outside my garage) and since it's not gas powered (no CO to worry about from the exhaust), filtration would not be a huge issue. Of course, this would be my first compressor and thats why I'm seeking advice. I am sure I am missing something.

Chad

The rate at which it fills will decline as the pressure increases. "Rated 3cfm" means 3cfm into an empty tank but closer to 2.25cfm once you get above 2500psi or so (a rough guess).

Its a 220V motor drawing about 12-15amps running. You can't run this off a little generator at 120V (or inverter), you need a minimum of a 20amp 220V outlet to handle the starting load. Some of the largest marina's might have suitable power for you, but they will be few and far between. Be sure to find a slip/outlet far from any generators or boats which might start up while your filling. It will be wicked noisy running on a dock.

The gas coming out of the compressor will be saturated with water vapor which will rust your tanks if not removed. It will also have oil mist in it which is bad news for your lungs if not removed. Chances are low but not impossible that their could be dieseling of the oil (partial combustion due to compression). Contaminants which are at trivial levels at 1ATA can be fatal at higher partial pressures. As a general rule, contaminated gas is overlooked as a cause of accidents both for divers and firefighters. But its a known risk factor esp. for cardiac events.

If you decide to buy it PLEASE have its throughly gone over by a qualified technician. The money you spend getting it checked out is wise and it will give you face-to-face time with someone who knows what they are talking about. Have them explain its operation and maintenance to you personally.

[pensacoladiver]

Thanks Jack, that is the kind of info I was seeking.

Oops, guess I should have said "Richard"

[CaptnJack]

Thanks Jack, that is the kind of info I was seeking.

Oops, guess I should have said "Richard"

No worries

How big of a boat do you have?

[pensacoladiver]

Well, It appears as if this conversation was purely academic. I just found out the unit was "disposed of" Ughhhh.

It was actually brand new. The folks that had it, had 2, only needed one and turned the excess into DRMO... you military guys will know what this is. Somehow at DRMO, this unit got labelled as "F" condition (not usable) AND was sent to the scrap heap.


Shame of it is, I have been meaning to talk to these guys for several months now. I had no idea they had an excess one. If I had gotten off my butt a few months back, I might be telling a different story.

Oh well,
Que Sera, Sera

Chad