side mount rigging

[ljjames]

Stopping by Seattle Fabric tomorrow for some heavier shock cord to try sidemount rigging for my monkey/bailout kit. Can pick up a couple extra feet if anyone else is interested.

Do any of you guys sidemount style your bailouts? Buttplate extension? No buttplate extension?

with FMCL it seems like it would be just the ticket for the 'low hanging bailout' issue i have due to having my d-rings in less optimal spot.

[Dmitchell]

I set this up for the first time last week and really like it. My lower d-ring is on my stand so it's lower than the waist strap by about 4". Then I had a hole just outside the tri-glide on the backplate that I anchored the bungie too and a bolt snap to the shoulder -d-ring.

I can even walk around out of the water with out the tank sagging.

[Joshua Smith]

Mel and some of her posse have been doing this for a while. I'm intrigued by it- a year and a half, and 150 hours on my Meg, and my only complaint is that I still have a bitch of a time finding my #$@^& D rings under the counterlungs. (Well, to be honest- changing 02 cells out could be easier, too.) And it looks pretty streamlined in the water.

[ljjames]

ya, corey from salvo has been telling me about it for a couple years. sidemounting for caves etc is not new news, and popping up more and more for monkey style stuff. i saw it in my friend Beckys meg and ut seems to solve a few problems. i'll be curious to find how it dives when you multiply stages. do you just bouquet the rest and do bottle switch prn ? on a recent vid i saw it done w/out a butt plate, which is my preference as well.

[Dmitchell]

I haven't thought much about anything beyond 2 stages. With CCR, how many do you need 3? So, I would imagine my rich gas would be on the right, then bottom bailout on the left both sidemount. If I need a 3rd, my first thought is to just clip it to the left bottle's bolt snaps. It'll hang lower but not any lower than it would normally mounted and it's still back and out of the way.

[loanwolf]

Laura I designed this and had a few cut out to mounted on any butt pack. I chose a OMS butt pack becuse i like to have the dry tube for sea-dye marker and a flare. You know those days when the boat is on the other side of the channel running back and forth looking for you and you can see them but they cannot see you as you drift into the shipping lanes.

I had a couple of these made up and can get more. It is not cheap when you do a few at a time.

Greg

Dry tube

spools and reels clip on top of it so they are not hanging down.

[ljjames]

I haven't thought much about anything beyond 2 stages. With CCR, how many do you need 3? So, I would imagine my rich gas would be on the right, then bottom bailout on the left both sidemount. If I need a 3rd, my first thought is to just clip it to the left bottle's bolt snaps. It'll hang lower but not any lower than it would normally mounted and it's still back and out of the way.

you need as many as you need and size of bottles as planned before the dive with regards to bailout. for a 330, this would likely be a bottom stage, and two deco bottles (maybe a third if its your pleasure, a 200' ish helium mix, a nitrox 70' bottle or thereabouts, and O2). i have not run the numbers but off top of my head thats likely what i'd think about.


my hope is to keep all full stages on left, working mix in front and 'others' clipped to a leash behind... similar to D-ring on tank just like old days.

i have enough crap up front with cameras and scooter to want a bottle on the right (unless i really were sidemounting)

[Dmitchell]

On CCR you have to change your way of thinking a little and that bottle on the right isn't so bad from a safety point. But, so long as the bottom bailout is the one you are going to grab first no matter what I guess it doesn't really matter. On OC, all my bottles go on the left like most people do. I can do 300ish with three bottles for bailout that's why I was asking how many you planned to carry.

[ljjames]

thanks for the images. that design would likely be hitting the back of my knees though with the exception of the offboard o2, i think alll that stuff fits in my current kit, in my bellows pockets and in my backplate pocket. in the case of offboard O2 i'd just use the whip on my O2 bailout. (APECS doesnt have depth restriction of constant flow units) *shrug* not like i'm doing those dives anytime soon.

with regards to floating lost in the shipping lane... i have a several hundred dives in the vicinity of our shipping lanes and have never been in that situation, could be just dumb luck or possibly meticulous planning with regards to support boats and such (on deep wrecks one 'dive platform' and one (minimum) or two chase boats depending on number of divers in the operation.

Laura I designed this and had a few cut out to mounted on any butt pack. I chose a OMS butt pack becuse i like to have the dry tube for sea-dye marker and a flare. You know those days when the boat is on the other side of the channel running back and forth looking for you and you can see them but they cannot see you as you drift into the shipping lanes.

I had a couple of these made up and can get more. It is not cheap when you do a few at a time.

Greg

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[ljjames]

On CCR you have to change your way of thinking a little and that bottle on the right isn't so bad from a safety point. But, so long as the bottom bailout is the one you are going to grab first no matter what I guess it doesn't really matter. On OC, all my bottles go on the left like most people do. I can do 300ish with three bottles for bailout that's why I was asking how many you planned to carry.

my thoughts are that you'll likely never need you rich mix 'in an emergency' (a dil flush at most depths will do, even of your bottom mix) when you are up in range of you rich mixes, might as well practice a little bottle management to aleviate boredom and move bottles around so if anything its almost better (in my fledgeling ccr brain) to NOT have O2 bottle within reach at toxic depths. FWIW, if you see any if my old picts, i always used to run with O2 (or 80/20 ) on the right, so very familiar with that practice.

thanks for the images. that design would likely be hitting the back of my knees though with the exception of the offboard o2, i think alll that stuff fits in my current kit, in my bellows pockets and in my backplate pocket. in the case of offboard O2 i'd just use the whip on my O2 bailout. (APECS doesnt have depth restriction of constant flow units) *shrug* not like i'm doing those dives anytime soon.

with regards to floating lost in the shipping lane... i have a several hundred dives in the vicinity of our shipping lanes and have never been in that situation, could be just dumb luck or possibly meticulous planning with regards to support boats and such (on deep wrecks one 'dive platform' and one (minimum) or two chase boats depending on number of divers in the operation.

Laura I designed this and had a few cut out to mounted on any butt pack. I chose a OMS butt pack becuse i like to have the dry tube for sea-dye marker and a flare. You know those days when the boat is on the other side of the channel running back and forth looking for you and you can see them but they cannot see you as you drift into the shipping lanes.

I had a couple of these made up and can get more. It is not cheap when you do a few at a time.

Greg

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IMG_0345.JPG

IMG_0346.JPG

IMG_0347.JPG

[camerone]

my thoughts are that you'll likely never need you rich mix 'in an emergency' (a dil flush at most depths will do, even of your bottom mix) when you are up in range of you rich mixes, might as well practice a little bottle management to aleviate boredom and move bottles around so if anything its almost better (in my fledgeling ccr brain) to NOT have O2 bottle within reach at toxic depths.

Actually, first stage failure on your O2 bottle (which can cause a solenoid lockup, or deny access to the onboard gas) or a loss/run out of your onboard oxygen, and you'll want that O2 bottle at depth. With a CCR, you want to stay _on_ that loop if possible. Basically, the only reason to get off the loop is a catastrophic flood that renders your scrubber unusable (and, hopefully, no caustic cocktail), or a depletion of your scrubber life (breakthrough.)

After a few sanity breaths o/c, then clearing the loop with a dil flush, running offboard O2 and flying the unit manually as a CCR is your preferred option, if it's available as a recovery mechanism, followed closely by SCR mode operations.

As I'm sure was drilled into you by Leon, you have a LOT of time on CCR to deal with problems. Things happen slowly, and if you're watching them happen, you should have ample time to decide and react.

[ljjames]

right, perhaps my writing was less than clear... plumbing in O2 is not the first order of business. open loop dil flush, get your wits about you, deal with issue. if it requires off board o2, your O2 is readily available, reachable well within allotted time.

iantd is sanity breaths, leon not so much. 'you went off loop for reason' (after you'd tried open loop dil flush and problem didnt go away) there is also whole internal / external boom algorithms. and yes, leon absolutely teaches that if your loop is 'good' (scrubber, no catastrophic loop failure, etc...) then for sure stay on loop as long as possible, even to extent of borrowing gas from buddy (OC or cCR) 'do what you gotta do' assuming worst case scenario with some distance left
to travel to egress.

[Joshua Smith]

Remember- you need 02 to ascend. However unlikely, catastrophic 02 loss at depth is a huge problem. Sure, you can bail out to OC if you don't have rich mix to plug in, but bailing out sucks- I hated doing it in class- managing the buoyancy of my wing,drysuit, and rebreather, all with noisy, nasty bubbles going on....I hated it. With my new offboard 02 set up, I have another option. And on CCR, it's all about options, in the event of Sudden High Intensity Training.

[ljjames]

first stage failing closed at depth? FWIW, I've been diving with standard balanced 1st stages (that are suspiciously like the ones on the eCCR meg i'm diving) for a long long time and have never had one fail at depth closed. Failing open, by design, is more likely of course would likely cause it's own issue, but solved by feathering the tank if it hasn't blown hoses (If you don't have a downstream anything to relieve pressure, I have little OPV's). If my solenoid fails open, I feather the O2. If my solenoid fails closed I inject O2 from my manual add. If'n I have external boom and loose onboard O2 altogether, it is not hard at all to flip a nose clipped tank around and snag it's whip to plumb in. heck, I'm carrying O2 anyway If memory serves me, eCCR runs dil a bit richer than mCCR, so maybe I have a bit more 'breathing room' so to speak in the event I have a failure. going open loop for a few breaths while I grab my O2 whip and plumb it in does not seem like it would be horribly bothersome, and if it happens at depth, if i've been flying at 1.3, as long as I don't ascend, I have a bit of time to sort things out. In class I did bailout from depth with Leon, and in his mix module, they do bailout from a mixed gas depth dive. I did not find it to be an issue. To me there was not a difference being on loop with the buoyancy on ascent or bailout, i open the vent on the counterlung to 'mostly open' and it seems vent in unison with my drysuit when I rotate slightly left. *shrug*
But then again, I don't generally touch my wing at all

I practice something like this (pluming in off board gas) on lots of dives... I have a tendency to run out of argon on long dives and have gotten quite adept at swapping hoses without even taking my right hand off the trigger. it might not be plugging it into the counterlung, its in fact a bit harder being that i'm plugging in to my drysuit inflator which is kinda hidden by the time the rest of my gear is in position.

I can see for some dives having a backup tiny O2 bottle on my backplate a la the mCCR guys and just have THAT plumed into my O2 manual add for super extra backup O2 without having to go to my bailout deco O2 bottle. But that would just for lowering the PITA factor, so that it's just already there ready to 'push' the button, but... at what point are we making the system even more complicated by trying to make it easier.

I *get* that you need O2 to ascend. That is not in question. I understand you guys have all been doing CCR a lot longer than me, and I TOTALLY appreciate the input, but keep in mind, I do have fair bit of time/experience invested in thinking through problem solving algorithms with regards to deep dives, with much less time to act than CCR allows you

[Dmitchell]

Sounds like you have every possible problem that you could ever conceivably have while on CCR figured out. Except how you're going to sidemount.

Btw, we all use the same dil blends.

[CaptnJack]

Sounds like you have every possible problem that you could ever conceivably have while on CCR figured out. Except how you're going to sidemount.

Laura meet Dave, Dave Laura

[ljjames]

Sounds like you have every possible problem that you could ever conceivably have while on CCR figured out. Except how you're going to sidemount.

Btw, we all use the same dil blends.

sorry if i came across as if i "know it all", as that is far from the case. i was voicing my thoughts/understanding of things from an as stated very limited, single ccr brand pov. mostly so i can have incorrect thoughts discussed, in case i misheard and/or misundestood my ccr instructor. it is unfortunate that you took it the wrong way, again, my apoligies

my mistake on the dil blends... i was skooled by someone else that mccr peeps run a 1.0 or 1.1 dil. what then -is- the number we all follow?

richard, was that necessary?

[loanwolf]

Laura if you talk to most none bubblers that do deep dives MOD 3 as well as shallow. Very few of us do gas planning weather you are mCCR or eCCR. I think if you go to rebreather world and do a pole you will see many (mod 3) of us run 10/50 for dill all the time becuse it is easy to make and covers from the surface (remembering you are hypoxic) down to 250+'. then pack something like 20/40 and up and 50% for bailout, very rarely will we carry 100% except for a small offboard. It really does not get you out of the water all that much faster for having to carry the third bottle on all your dives. two 40's or a 40 and a 80 is much nicer and if you have to stay in the water another 6 or 7 minutes who cares. It is much easier to bank up 10/50 and fill your dill tank form that with the same gas every time unless going below 300'. also you do not have to change your computer each dive as everything is the same on each dive. But yo do have to keep in mind it is a hypoxic mix and has to be thought about if you dill flush shallow. The fact that a rebreather is a mixing station on you back enables us to get lazy about gas planing. But it also enables us the freedom to just grab the rig and go do literally anything at anytime without a whole lot of thought.

Question for you is, How do you like not having a gas clock anymore???????