Double ender on lighthead?

[scottsax]

I have a bolt snap tied to the groove on the back of my lighthead. I've seen folks with a double ender also attached to a loop on the goodman handle. Why? And, do I attach it with a loop of bungee tied on with cave line, or can I use a zip tie?

[BDub]

Hey Scott-

I have a loop of bungee on my Goodman handle as well as on the butt of the light. When out of the water, or if the light is off, I clip the light off at the Goodman handle. When the light is on, and I need to clip it off, I clip it off on at the butt of the light, so it hangs down and doesn't blind everybody.

Clipping it off at the Goodman keeps the light pointed slightly more up, and out of the water, the lighthead is slightly more protected, since it's not hanging down.

Basically, when we're doing our gear checks, when I turn my light on, I move the double-ender to the butt of the light and it stays there til I turn the light off at the end of the dive. At that point, I move the double-ender back to the loop on the Goodman.

[scottsax]

Thanks Brian!

Is the bungee loop tied on with cave line?

[dsteding]

I have a bolt snap tied to the groove on the back of my lighthead. I've seen folks with a double ender also attached to a loop on the goodman handle. Why? And, do I attach it with a loop of bungee tied on with cave line, or can I use a zip tie?

I do a bolt snap tied to the goodman, and a loop on the back of the lighthead (it is a tank o-ring tied on with cave line). Double ender is used to hang down on ascent as Brian described. Bolt snap on goodman is used for more permanent stowage-which protects the light a bit better as Brian also described.

You can use a zip tie, but the longevity of that zip tie may be an issue. If I was going to use one, I'd be more inclined to put it on the non-permanent option (the one that uses the double ender).

I keep the double ender on my left d-ring basically permanently.

[CaptnJack]

I have a bolt snap tied to the groove on the back of my lighthead. I've seen folks with a double ender also attached to a loop on the goodman handle. Why? And, do I attach it with a loop of bungee tied on with cave line, or can I use a zip tie?

Its most common to put the fixed boltsnap on the goodman. Usually on the right side where you can if need be hold it up with your left thumb. Then a loop of bungie or a tank neck oring on the back of the lighthead (if grooved) on the distal part of the cord. You clip this off with a double ender. Tie the loop or oring on with cave line, zip-ties have a habit of breaking at the worst times. Check the cave line every once in awhile, might has chaffed through once.

If the light is on but needs to be temporarily stowed you can clip it off by the back loop with a double ender. Can still be used to signal if need be.

If the light is dead and off, then you clip it off by the goodman and get it up as close to your chest as possible.

[scottsax]

Hmm.... I'll have to look at the goodman handle when I get home. I have the DSS thumb loop on it, because I like the ease of passing it to my right hand.

What's the most common point of attachment to the handle?

[dsteding]

Hmm.... I'll have to look at the goodman handle when I get home. I have the DSS thumb loop on it, because I like the ease of passing it to my right hand.

What's the most common point of attachment to the handle?

The top end of the slot in the goodman--above where the screw goes through it. And, I have both a bolt snap there and the thumb loop and the two work fine together.

[scottsax]

Hmm.... I'll have to look at the goodman handle when I get home. I have the DSS thumb loop on it, because I like the ease of passing it to my right hand.

What's the most common point of attachment to the handle?

The top end of the slot in the goodman--above where the screw goes through it. And, I have both a bolt snap there and the thumb loop and the two work fine together.

Of course it is....

Way too logical!

[dsteding]

Hmm.... I'll have to look at the goodman handle when I get home. I have the DSS thumb loop on it, because I like the ease of passing it to my right hand.

What's the most common point of attachment to the handle?

The top end of the slot in the goodman--above where the screw goes through it. And, I have both a bolt snap there and the thumb loop and the two work fine together.

Of course it is....

Way too logical!

Tie it tight, and take a file to the inside edges of that slot ahead of time--if the edges are sharp, they'll eventually wear through the cave line.

[Sockmonkey]

Jeanna showed me a similar trick a la AG where you always keep the double ender connected to both the loop (or o-ring) on the handle and the loop at the butt of the light. That way you don't need to unclip the DE but still point the light however you like as Brian described. And for those of us without a thumb loop it makes a convenient place to stuff your thumb. Now we're talking my-noosha.

-Eric

Hey Scott-

I have a loop of bungee on my Goodman handle as well as on the butt of the light. When out of the water, or if the light is off, I clip the light off at the Goodman handle. When the light is on, and I need to clip it off, I clip it off on at the butt of the light, so it hangs down and doesn't blind everybody.

Clipping it off at the Goodman keeps the light pointed slightly more up, and out of the water, the lighthead is slightly more protected, since it's not hanging down.

Basically, when we're doing our gear checks, when I turn my light on, I move the double-ender to the butt of the light and it stays there til I turn the light off at the end of the dive. At that point, I move the double-ender back to the loop on the Goodman.

[CaptnJack]

Jeanna showed me a similar trick a la AG where you always keep the double ender connected to both the loop (or o-ring) on the handle and the loop at the butt of the light. That way you don't need to unclip the DE but still point the light however you like as Brian described. And for those of us without a thumb loop it makes a convenient place to stuff your thumb. Now we're talking my-noosha.

-Eric

That's sorta an AG/UTD specific dealio. Other cave folks (either via GUE or more generic, myself included) generally want a fixed boltsnap - and the tiniest one at that. When the light is dead you don't want to make matters worse by having it drag any lower than absolutely necessary, nor not be able to clip it off cause you lost the double ender (which I have a habit of doing, although I wonder is Bdub is just losing his with his stroky dual loop attachments and then stealing mine )

One other trick that some people like is to clip the lighthead loop and the chest d-ring together with the same end of the double ender, leaving the rest unused sorta like a handle.

[Sockmonkey]

That's sorta an AG/UTD specific dealio. Other cave folks (either via GUE or more generic, myself included) generally want a fixed boltsnap - and the tiniest one at that. When the light is dead you don't want to make matters worse by having it drag any lower than absolutely necessary, nor not be able to clip it off cause you lost the double ender (which I have a habit of doing, although I wonder is Bdub is just losing his with his stroky dual loop attachments and then stealing mine )

One other trick that some people like is to clip the lighthead loop and the chest d-ring together with the same end of the double ender, leaving the rest unused sorta like a handle.

Next to smurfy... stroky may be the most versatile adjective ever. And not just because Richard uses it to describe something AG specific.

-Eric

[Paulicarp]

AG did a great video blog on this HERE

[Mattleycrue76]

Thanks for the link Pauli, I'm gonna try that out - BTW are you certified yet? If so when are we gonna dive?

[lamont]

i just do fixed boltsnaps on both ends. i haven't yet had an issue with the fixed boltsnap at the end of the goodman handle snagging on anything, even in cave (OTOH i just ordered some DSS bungee boots for my SK7 and my Vyper because the default straps that come with them are cave line magnets...).

i also do a fixed boltsnap on my reel. again, never had a problem with snagging...

[Joshua Smith]

i just do fixed boltsnaps on both ends. i haven't yet had an issue with the fixed boltsnap at the end of the goodman handle snagging on anything, even in cave (OTOH i just ordered some DSS bungee boots for my SK7 and my Vyper because the default straps that come with them are cave line magnets...).

i also do a fixed boltsnap on my reel. again, never had a problem with snagging...

That config is a deathtrap. You're gonna die, and so is anyone who chooses to dive with you.

[LCF]

I've used the fixed boltsnap tied to the handle, and the ring on the butt end of the light, but when you clip the light off in a permanent way, using the boltsnap, it does hang a long way from your body if you are horizontal. Not an issue on open water ascents, probably, but it can be an issue in a cave. I like the longitudinal double-ender idea, because it puts the lighthead closer to your body in both clipped off positions. The only question in my mind is whether one is likely to lose the double-ender (because it's unlikely to lose a tied-on bolt snap) so I think I'll dive the setup for a while in open water, before I take it in a cave.

[CaptnJack]

I like the stupid, cheap, easy "bungie over the top" as a thumb loop dealio. But I think I'll keep my attached boltsnap for now as well; I lose too many double enders.

[lamont]

That config is a deathtrap. You're gonna die, and so is anyone who chooses to dive with you.

That is what I've been told. =)

Some dude named bob sherwood told me to do that back about 4 years ago, I guess he's a known stroke though...

[BDub]

I like the stupid, cheap, easy "bungie over the top" as a thumb loop dealio. But I think I'll keep my attached boltsnap for now as well; I lose too many double enders.

I tried that out at Alki Reef yesterday. I think I like it.

[dsteding]

I've used the fixed boltsnap tied to the handle, and the ring on the butt end of the light, but when you clip the light off in a permanent way, using the boltsnap, it does hang a long way from your body if you are horizontal.

The solution here is to clip the double ender off to both the lighthead and the d-ring using the same gate of the double ender. Pulls it closer to the body (by the length of the double ender). You can do that with your configuration--I do that when I think of it underwater (but old habits die hard).

I like the longitudinal double-ender idea, because it puts the lighthead closer to your body in both clipped off positions. The only question in my mind is whether one is likely to lose the double-ender (because it's unlikely to lose a tied-on bolt snap) so I think I'll dive the setup for a while in open water, before I take it in a cave.

I like the configuration as well. But, I like my DSS thumb loop too. I'll probably keep it the way it is. The only reason I'd change is because the handle-side bolt snap's cave line wears through over time, I think mostly from being transported in the boat-the bouncing of the lighthead, even when stowed under the strap holding things down--puts a bit of stress on the cave line.

As for losing the double ender, that is a serious consideration with the price of those things these days--but you could still carry a spare somewhere. I find the one I park on my right d-ring to be very useful.

A good, pin-headed UTD conversation, with only one nay-saying CCR diver saying we're gonna die. I'd call this thread a success (and it wouldn't be the same without you Josh). Sounder needs to push an X1, declare his Salvo hominess, and we're complete . . .

[BDub]

What is it with all you people losing double enders? The only way I lose double enders is to students who lost or forgot their's, which reminds me...Lynne you owe me a double ender. Pauli, you owe me a double ender. Lundy, I'm sure you do too.

A good, pin-headed UTD conversation, with only one nay-saying CCR diver saying we're gonna die. I'd call this thread a success (and it wouldn't be the same without you Josh). Sounder needs to push an X1, declare his Salvo hominess, and we're complete . . .

You forgot DSS

[LCF]

I've found the "clip through butt loop and D-ring" thing to work . . . okay. But I have found it to be a completely PITA to unclip, for some reason. I don't know if I'd have the same problem with this setup, but I'm willing to try it.

Brian, if you can get the rest of this class scheduled, I'll happily provide you with TWO double enders.

[airsix]

As far as losing the double-ender... I don't think that's going to be a problem with this new config because you never unclip the DE from either end. It's the most secure DE you've got! Both gates are always clipped to the light. Even if one end did happen to come unclipped it is still attached by the other end and you'd notice right away.

I'm rigging mine today. (NWbrewer is breathing a sigh of relief.)

-Ben

[Paulicarp]

What is it with all you people losing double enders? The only way I lose double enders is to students who lost or forgot their's, which reminds me...Lynne you owe me a double ender. Pauli, you owe me a double ender.

I am happy to report that I have never lost, stolen or failed to return a borrowed double ender. I do still have your bolt snap tied to my primary hose, but I have yet to engrave my name on it, therefore it's not truly stolen yet. And with my record of forgeting to clip it off, I'm thinking of streamlining my configuration and giving it back anyway under the premise that if you don't use it, you don't need it and it's just dangling there like a cave line magnet.

Which raises another question- I've seen cave line used for just about everything, but why do they call it "cave line"? I've never actually seen it in a cave... BAH dum. Thank you very much...I'll be here all week.