Cuff Dump

Need advice on recreational gear configurations? Look no further than this equipment forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
FlyinV
Dive-aholic
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:40 am

Cuff Dump

Post by FlyinV »

What is the opinion of a drysuit cuff dump valve?

I am only 10 dives into my drysuit diving so perhaps its all practice but I seem to not be able to get out enough air from the suit via the shoulder dump when I am finished with a dive at about 10 feet under. I suppose another couple pounds of lead is possible but I feel overweighted as it is at the start of the dive.

I am putting the very minimum of air into the drysuit when I dive ( hence the drysuit hickeys ) Using my BCD to adjust the buoyancy. Yesterday when diving I raised up my arm ... could feel some air move that way and thought if I had a cuff dump I could get rid of this.

I do have a class lined up in a couple weeks to do some drysuit skills and work with an instructor on my buoyancy.
While I am not terrible -- its certainly been a big change from a wetsuit .. which I felt I was pretty proficient with :)
Jeff V
Octo Buddy Dive Tours - www.octobuddy.com
Fishstiq
Amphibian
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:58 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Fishstiq »

There are a couple things to consider. One, as you dive a drysuit more and get more comfortable with it, you will learn to manage the air bubble that is created while ascending. Venting your suit earlier will help, trying to vent smaller amounts of gas before they become a buoyancy issue, but it sounds like you are okay there if the problem is within 10ft of the surface. Cuff dumps are another option. They are a tool, like anything else. Superior does a great job I've heard installing cuff dumps and patching the old shoulder dump. If it was an option on my suit when I bought it, I would have gotten one.
Not just front page famous, but above the fold famous...

Waiting for your AIDS test results is no time to be thinking positive.
User avatar
Dusty2
I've Got Gills
Posts: 6388
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:04 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Dusty2 »

Cuff dumps are OK but can be problematic. The big thing being if you raise your arm you lose air and sink. Sounds pretty strait forward but you don't realize how much you do that until you have a cuff dump. I have found that if I turn my suit dump all the way open at or near my saftey stop and compensate with my BCD if needed it works pretty well. If your feet are to high you may need to tuck slightly to move the air up then roll your shoulder up so the last of the air goes out.
User avatar
Pinkpadigal
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1060
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:19 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Pinkpadigal »

I am a huge fan of cuff dumps, but I know a lot of divers who dislike them. There are different types, both have advantages and disadvantages.

As a new drysuit diver, the wrist dump is a lot easier to use. As Dusty mentioned, if you raise your arm though, air comes out quickly and easily. However, this can be avoided by closing the valve. As a DS instructor, I enjoy teaching new DS divers in a cuff dump because the students seem to learn buoyancy in a DS a lot easier, because all they have to do is lift their arm and air comes out, much like it does in a BCD.

Seasoft has cuff dump standard on all their suits, and depending on which suit you get, it will be a Si-tech valve. Other manufactures (DUI and Whites for example) give you this as an option if you order a custom suit. I am a fan of the Si-Tech valves. They are easy to maintain and seem to last a lot longer than other brands I have used over the years.

Diving Concepts has an option of a 1 way valve, which is about the size of a quarter. (I am sure other companies do too, however DC is the only one I am familiar with) Unless you are experienced in diving a drysuit, the airbubble in the suit is a bit harder to manage. However, the air comes out very quickly and buoyancy is very simple to maintain, once you figure out how to use the valve. I have one on my DC suit, and it is very nice.

Once you get used to diving dry, and managing the bubble in your suit, you will figure out the easiest way to get out of the shoulder dump and it will become quite easy for you. If you are in the market to purchase a suit, I would suggest you try both to see which is more comfortable for you. It just takes some practice, and a lot of diving :partydance:
Amy Rhodes
PADI Master Instructor #183890
A-2-Z Scuba Instruction
http://www.a2zscuba.com
*******************
User avatar
Gooch
Submariner
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Gooch »

I haven't really noticed a need for the cuff dump yet. I can see how it would be useful, but so far, I've been able to manage things fine. I would say that it could be a good upgrade but I'm (so far) not totally needing it I guess. Mainly, I need a Canon G10 and a casing...and maybe a strobe, first :)
http://nwdivers.me/blog/ Original articles and dive reports from local divers in the Vancouver, WA area. Suggestions for stories or your own reports are welcome!

Image
User avatar
Dusty2
I've Got Gills
Posts: 6388
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:04 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Dusty2 »

Gooch wrote:I haven't really noticed a need for the cuff dump yet. I can see how it would be useful, but so far, I've been able to manage things fine. I would say that it could be a good upgrade but I'm (so far) not totally needing it I guess. Mainly, I need a Canon G10 and a casing...and maybe a strobe, first :)
Ah yes, You have your priorities properly aligned my son! :rawlings: :rawlings:
User avatar
Gooch
Submariner
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Gooch »

Hey Flyin V....

I noticed our mutual friend (Rog) was having a lot of issues with his cuff dump....mainly, getting wet when he was using it all the time. We took it to Hoodsport and had the experts inspect it..seemed o.k. After seeing that, I'm not sure I want one. But---who knows. Some folks love them.
http://nwdivers.me/blog/ Original articles and dive reports from local divers in the Vancouver, WA area. Suggestions for stories or your own reports are welcome!

Image
User avatar
FlyinV
Dive-aholic
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:40 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by FlyinV »

I have forgotten about the cuff valve idea now.
A better idea was just getting some more dives and learning how to dive the suit.

While not perfect I am now comfortable.
No problems or worries about the suit the last 5 dives so things are coming along :)
Jeff V
Octo Buddy Dive Tours - www.octobuddy.com
User avatar
loanwolf
Pelagic
Posts: 945
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:20 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by loanwolf »

A quick question what type of undergarment are you wearing. If you are wearing a undergarment that has a nylon shell such as a Weezle when it gets wet from your sweat it will not allow air to pass through the fabric and slow or block the valve. If you do have this type of undergarment if you take and elastic band and wrap it around your arm were the valve is this will keep this from happening. I have this happen with my Weezle all the time.

As far as cuff dumps I do not like them for 3 reasons.

1) i have seen too many fail.
2) The wrist is valuable realestate to waist with a valve to put computers, compasses, slates, etc.
3) if you reach into places they can get damaged far easier.
Greg
Life is Short do as Much as Possible in as Short of Period of Time as Possible.
User avatar
psundquist
Avid Diver
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:10 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by psundquist »

I was wondering about a cuff release when I was learning how to dive in my dry suit. Now that I have experience with it, I decided the shoulder dump valve works great and won't change it.
User avatar
Waynne Fowler
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:57 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Waynne Fowler »

one of my biggest issues against a cuff dump is that for them to not get in the way you have to use a small dump, typically they are non-adjustable so they only dump at a set rate and it cannot dump air out as fast as a standard NTP fitting will allow air into the suit. IMO this isn't a good thing. I personally want a dump valve that can get rid of air faster than my intake will allow in.

If you put a normal sized valve on the cuff it's a HUGE PITA, IMO.

The biggest problem I've seen with new divers trying to learn to dump air out of the dry suit is positioning. While your learning to dive it I tell folks to 'watch the valve so you can see it dumping' This allows them to know what position they should be in to allow the suit to vent.... when first learning to dive the suit 'trim' should take a backseat during the dump phase. Get your feet a bit lower let that valve rise a bit above the other shoulder and watch it. Soon you'll have it down and all will be good.

Congrat's on the drysuit... dive and stay dry! :)
Ripper of drysuits, mocker of divers...there are no atheist divers in a mistimed Deception Pass dive. Jeremy
jsharps
Just Settling In
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by jsharps »

I have used the quarter size one-way cuff dump provided as an option by Diving Concepts for a number of years. It is undergarment agnostic (helpful if you ever transition from warm to cold waters or cold to colder waters diving around here) and I have learned with the cuff dump I can make very fast and very precise adjustments in buoyancy.

In my technical diving I have never worried about sinking because I let out too much air in my dry suit but before the cuff dump I did worry about rising too rapidly because I couldn't get air out of an adjustable & often problematic shoulder valve fast enough.

One negative I have heard though - from cave diving greats like GI, is that the cuff dump has no place in the cave. In tight spaces you want to have perfected the shoulder roll with your shoulder valve rather than punch the ceiling with your cuff dump.

JWS
www.jawsmarine.com
User avatar
lamont
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1212
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:00 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by lamont »

jsharps wrote: One negative I have heard though - from cave diving greats like GI, is that the cuff dump has no place in the cave. In tight spaces you want to have perfected the shoulder roll with your shoulder valve rather than punch the ceiling with your cuff dump.
You are also probably going to flash your light when you dump with the cuff, which could get really annoying to your buddies in a cave...
User avatar
Aquanautchuck
Pelagic
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:33 pm

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Aquanautchuck »

I added the small 1/2 dollar size wrist dump to my DUI when I bought it. It is just a one way valve and dumps air real fast. I have mixed feelings about it. I have thought of just blocking it off but stop because every so often need it.

It's Pro's are.
1) Dumps air real fast, faster than my shoulder valve.
2) Very low profile.
3) Easy to use.

Con's
1) You lift your arm for something else and dump air.
2) Can and does leak at times.
3) Even though it is very low profile it can catch on things.
Charles
User avatar
Waynne Fowler
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:57 am

Re: Cuff Dump

Post by Waynne Fowler »

Aquanautchuck wrote:It's Pro's are.
1) Dumps air real fast, faster than my shoulder valve..
Really?... what valve are you testing against.
I did a test and it couldn't keep up with my si-tek low flow inflator... not even close.
The same test with my si-tek shoulder dump had exactly the opposite results.. I could'nt make the suit over inflate.
Now I've never tested it against an Apex valve (DUI use's these valves)

My off the cuff (no pun intended) thought is that it wouldn't be able to dump as fast as the old Apex stack valves either, but that's a WAG as I've never physically tested that.
Ripper of drysuits, mocker of divers...there are no atheist divers in a mistimed Deception Pass dive. Jeremy
Post Reply