Very cool move by Edge/HOG equipment

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:11 am

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/edge-g ... ost4797947

In short, they've announced that they are going to allow people with certs at or above the Intro to Tech/Fundies level to take classes in servicing their own regulators, and make it possible for them to buy the parts.

Apparently Lighthouse Diving in Lynwood is a dealer. I'm thinking I may have to make a trip up there to look at these regs.

Waynne Fowler · Post by **Waynne Fowler** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:09 am

why not just take a course directly from the mfg of your regs?
getting sponsored by a shop should be easy I'd think, we've sponsored any customer who's asked.

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:32 am

I think you may be in the minority in doing that, Waynne.

defied · Post by **defied** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:04 am

LCF wrote:I think you may be in the minority in doing that, Waynne.

.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:13 am

Waynne Fowler wrote:why not just take a course directly from the mfg of your regs?
getting sponsored by a shop should be easy I'd think, we've sponsored any customer who's asked.

Most shops won't sponser a customer in this way, since they want the customer to buy the service from them.

And why should I, as a product owner, have to go through a shop to get "permission" to work on my own equipment?

I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:05 am

Grateful Diver wrote:
I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Sarcasm]
But..but...but... It's LIFE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT! Surely the guy at the LDS paid minimum wage is more capable than the guy whose life is in the line. [/Sarcasm]

vbcoachchris · Post by **vbcoachchris** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:50 pm

Lighthouse will be stocking Edge/HOG gear very shortly

Scott

defied · Post by **defied** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Nwbrewer wrote:
Grateful Diver wrote:
I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
[Sarcasm]
But..but...but... It's LIFE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT! Surely the guy at the LDS paid minimum wage is more capable than the guy whose life is in the line. [/Sarcasm]

That's a tough one. As much as I'd love to laugh with you on that.
I got certified to work on Kirby Morgan regs when I was in the commercial world. As a tender, I had rebuit two hats for two different people that would not let me touch the regs as they preferred to do it themselves.

The first guy, I rebuilt his hat, except for the reg, because that was payment for me being allowed to dive it. I got in the water, did the dive, all the while the reg made an odd clunking sound. When I got out of the water, I told the guy about the sound, and when he went to remove the steel band (which turned out to be cracked at the set screw, and split completely apart upon removal), the valve stem fell halfway out of the reg... Diver beatdown almost occurred there.

The second guy, I tech'd his comms for him, and he decided he would work on his own reg... They never found him his next dive. The pulled up a hose and a hat. He had bailed out of his harness from 210fsw, and made a dash for the surface.

Coast Guard reported that the valve was "improperly installed" in the regulator assembly.

So sometimes, the guy who make minimum wage and that job is one of a few limited responsibilities, maybe he does know better than the owner how it works.

my 2 psi.

D(B)

wallyc72 · Post by **wallyc72** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:38 pm

It is hard enough to convince people to get there gear service at the LDS. Letting people work on there own gear is one more step towards no local dive shops. :angry:

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:03 pm

wallyc72 wrote:It is hard enough to convince people to get there gear service at the LDS. Letting people work on there own gear is one more step towards no local dive shops. :angry:

While I support the idea of getting regs servced by a LDS you trust (trust being the operative word) I highly doubt a few DIYers are going to put LDSs out of business. After all I can (and do) replace the brakes on my own car and yet Les Schwab and Midas seem to be doing just fine.

Only a small fraction of very dedicated people will ever actually get training and go service their own reg. I kinda doubt these are the people that dive shops depend on for their income in the first place.

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:06 pm

defied wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:
Grateful Diver wrote:
I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
[Sarcasm]
But..but...but... It's LIFE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT! Surely the guy at the LDS paid minimum wage is more capable than the guy whose life is in the line. [/Sarcasm]
That's a tough one. As much as I'd love to laugh with you on that.
I got certified to work on Kirby Morgan regs when I was in the commercial world. As a tender, I had rebuit two hats for two different people that would not let me touch the regs as they preferred to do it themselves.

The first guy, I rebuilt his hat, except for the reg, because that was payment for me being allowed to dive it. I got in the water, did the dive, all the while the reg made an odd clunking sound. When I got out of the water, I told the guy about the sound, and when he went to remove the steel band (which turned out to be cracked at the set screw, and split completely apart upon removal), the valve stem fell halfway out of the reg... Diver beatdown almost occurred there.

The second guy, I tech'd his comms for him, and he decided he would work on his own reg... They never found him his next dive. The pulled up a hose and a hat. He had bailed out of his harness from 210fsw, and made a dash for the surface.

Coast Guard reported that the valve was "improperly installed" in the regulator assembly.

So sometimes, the guy who make minimum wage and that job is one of a few limited responsibilities, maybe he does know better than the owner how it works.

my 2 psi.

D(B)

I have no experience whatsoever with hard hat diving. What is the bailout plan for a 210fsw dive? I mean a diver in manifolded doubles in this scenario would have likely survived unless both regs had been equally messed up. What is the commercial divers contingency plan for this type of scenario?

defied · Post by **defied** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:32 pm

Yelling for topside to make their pneumo hot, and shoving it up their neckdam. Works great.

They never heard him say anything. They just felt the line go slack.

D(B)

Waynne Fowler · Post by **Waynne Fowler** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:48 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:
Waynne Fowler wrote:why not just take a course directly from the mfg of your regs?
getting sponsored by a shop should be easy I'd think, we've sponsored any customer who's asked.
Most shops won't sponser a customer in this way, since they want the customer to buy the service from them.

And why should I, as a product owner, have to go through a shop to get "permission" to work on my own equipment?

I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

While I get the 'idea' of why a shop wont do that. I think that sort of thinkings rather 'backwards' and does more harm than good. in truth most people don't want to service their own regs it's a very small # of people who want to do their own service. By not sponsoring them you drive them further away form your store, your till and your community.

Great analogy Bob... BTW your name came up last night.... you've got some real fans my friend.

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:59 pm

defied wrote:Yelling for topside to make their pneumo hot, and shoving it up their neckdam. Works great.

They never heard him say anything. They just felt the line go slack.

D(B)

Ok so pneumo = deco chamber?

What's a neckdam?

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:03 pm

Anyone can botch a job whether they're doing it for themselves or being paid to do it. Just because you paid for the service doesn't always guarantee the risk is lower.

I believe that I have the right to decide which services I will outsource and which I will perform myself. I believe we all have that right. I'm also smart enough to know there are some things I shouldn't do myself because I lack the training, knowledge, funding, equipment, time, skill, or interest. For those things I'll pay a professional. However, I'm going to be the one to make those decisions. There are many things I choose to do myself because either my level of interest is high, or my concern for the outcome demands my personal involvement.

I'm pretty easy to get along with, but one thing I won't tolerate is someone telling me I'm not capable of something I've set out to do, especially if it is something clearly within reach. Feel free to impose limitations on yourself, but don't try to push those limitations off on others.

defied · Post by **defied** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:10 pm

airsix wrote:Anyone can botch a job whether they're doing it for themselves or being paid to do it. Just because you paid for the service doesn't always guarantee the risk is lower.

I believe that I have the right to decide which services I will outsource and which I will perform myself. I believe we all have that right. I'm also smart enough to know there are some things I shouldn't do myself because I lack the training, knowledge, funding, equipment, time, skill, or interest. For those things I'll pay a professional. However, I'm going to be the one to make those decisions. There are many things I choose to do myself because either my level of interest is high, or my concern for the outcome demands my personal involvement.

I'm pretty easy to get along with, but one thing I won't tolerate is someone telling me I'm not capable of something I've set out to do, especially if it is something clearly within reach. Feel free to impose limitations on yourself, but don't try to push those limitations off on others.

I like that answer, and more than strongly agree with it.

Mattleycrue76 wrote:
defied wrote:Yelling for topside to make their pneumo hot, and shoving it up their neckdam. Works great.

They never heard him say anything. They just felt the line go slack.

D(B)
Ok so pneumo = deco chamber?

What's a neckdam?

pneumo is a hose that leads to the surface, and is attached to the divers main surface supply line (along with comms, and a polypropylene rope for strength[optional is hot water hose, video and other items]). They flood the hose with air, and then turn it off. The pressure of the water against the air in the hose tells the dive supervisor the divers depth. In an emergency, a dive Sup will crank this on, and if the diver is responsive, and still there, they can shove it up their neck dam.

neck dam is the bottom part of a multiple (usually two) part hat. It's generally a neoprene neck seal that is tight around the divers neck, and bolted in to what we call a "toilet seat" which is a ridgid (usually steel) ring with an Oring all the way around it that locks in to the top part of the hat, creating a sealed hat that the divers head is in.

Generally if there is an incident where the diver loses air thgouth the hose, they go on bailout, which is their back gas. Now, considering their back gas is usually a 72, that's not a lot of time at 200+ feet, so they might call for the pneumo to be turned on.

D(B)

Burntchef · Post by **Burntchef** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:47 pm

isnt replacing your service kits in a reg and actually tuning your reg very different things

ip creep and drift, cracking inhalation.......... and all the other tests a real shop or service tech can do. just got my regs back with the data sheets and they went thru about 15 tests.

to me replacing part for part is not servicing your regs.

bigsky · Post by **bigsky** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:46 pm

Waynne Fowler wrote:why not just take a course directly from the mfg of your regs?
getting sponsored by a shop should be easy I'd think, we've sponsored any customer who's asked.

so how does one get sponsored?
just show up and ask?

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:51 am

Burntchef wrote:isnt replacing your service kits in a reg and actually tuning your reg very different things

ip creep and drift, cracking inhalation.......... and all the other tests a real shop or service tech can do. just got my regs back with the data sheets and they went thru about 15 tests.

to me replacing part for part is not servicing your regs.

Yep, which is why it would be way cool to take the service tech class. To learn what those 15 tests entail and how to conduct them.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:34 am

http://www.airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html

smike · Post by **smike** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:51 am

I started this post to say that I also would like to know how to adjust and service my reg.
But I realized there was another aspect to regulators that I want:
http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9961

Mike

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:57 am

Waynne Fowler wrote:
Grateful Diver wrote:
Waynne Fowler wrote:why not just take a course directly from the mfg of your regs?
getting sponsored by a shop should be easy I'd think, we've sponsored any customer who's asked.
Most shops won't sponser a customer in this way, since they want the customer to buy the service from them.

And why should I, as a product owner, have to go through a shop to get "permission" to work on my own equipment?

I can go into Shuck's Auto ... or my local Honda dealer ... and purchase any part I want for my car without getting permission from the folks I purchased the car from. Why should scuba equipment be any different?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
While I get the 'idea' of why a shop wont do that. I think that sort of thinkings rather 'backwards' and does more harm than good. in truth most people don't want to service their own regs it's a very small # of people who want to do their own service. By not sponsoring them you drive them further away form your store, your till and your community.

Great analogy Bob... BTW your name came up last night.... you've got some real fans my friend.

Thanks ... and you have it exactly right, to my concern.

The shops that treat me like I'm somehow obligated to purchase everything from them are the ones I stay away from. The ones who treat me like a friend, with respect, and don't hassle me if something they don't offer catches my eye and I buy it from someone else are also the ones who I will go out of my way to support.

To my friend Wally ... you have a point, but despite the fact that I can and sometimes do work on my own regs I find other ways to support my local dive shop. In fact, the last three regs I brought to you for service weren't even mine. I think almost anyone who would make the effort to learn how to service their own regs would be sufficiently experienced (and addicted) to understand that a local dive shop that provides excellent service is a community asset worth protecting, and would find ways to support that shop.

Those who treat their customers like friends will get the shop loyalty that they deserve ... you and Matt are two excellent examples, which is why your names have come up so often in this thread.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

sheahanmcculla · Post by **sheahanmcculla** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:47 am

LCF wrote:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/edge-g ... ost4797947

In short, they've announced that they are going to allow people with certs at or above the Intro to Tech/Fundies level to take classes in servicing their own regulators, and make it possible for them to buy the parts.

Apparently Lighthouse Diving in Lynwood is a dealer. I'm thinking I may have to make a trip up there to look at these regs.

Question:

If you can get the First stage for $90.00, wouldn't it be cheaper and better to buy a new one every year?
Is the D1 comparable to the Apeks DS4?

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:58 am

sheahanmcculla wrote:
LCF wrote:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/edge-g ... ost4797947

In short, they've announced that they are going to allow people with certs at or above the Intro to Tech/Fundies level to take classes in servicing their own regulators, and make it possible for them to buy the parts.

Apparently Lighthouse Diving in Lynwood is a dealer. I'm thinking I may have to make a trip up there to look at these regs.

Question:

If you can get the First stage for $90.00, wouldn't it be cheaper and better to buy a new one every year?
Is the D1 comparable to the Apeks DS4?

Looks more like a DST ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

dieseldude · Post by **dieseldude** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:26 pm

I would prefer to work on my own stuff as well but FWIW, I know someone certified to work on a couple different types of regs & can't easily get anyone to sell the parts. This person told me a few days ago that Dive rite is making kits available for their regs & the diver is considering giving up on Apeks all together because of the parts hassle. This makes it a nightmare for someone like me to get parts & frankly I feel like I'm being held Hostage. You do good service Wally, & I drove a long way from my home to pay you to do some work for me but some things I like to do myself. I give diesel info away freely & let my customers decide what they can handle & what they need help with. I have found that this keeps them dedicated to me & they send there friends to me as well. I get referalls ALLOT.
I also feel that having a complete understanding of "what makes it tick" puts me in a better position to propperly do regular service & inspection of my regs as I will learn where the "weak points" are & know what to look for. You dive shop owners could make some money selling me things like a test pressure guage or other special tools that I will need to complete the task. You could also still make profit on my parts & if I screw them up, you'll make it twice. Education is never free.
MJ

Northwest Dive Club

Very cool move by Edge/HOG equipment

Very cool move by Edge/HOG equipment

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