Dive Lights

[Novice]

I am a newer diver. I just dropped a huge painful load of cash to get a basic kit. I am starting to look at dive lights. My instructor had one of those fancy Halcyon dive lights that could probably double as an arc welder but told me "you don't want to know how much I paid for this" and that was with his shop discount.

I have seen both the plastic handheld lights UK but also notice Niterider makes dive lights. I like their Mt. Bike lights. Anyone use these? They have some entry level type lights in the sub $350 range. Any other recommendations?

[airsix]

I do not recommend those halogen/led combo lights. In fairness I don't have experience with Niterider products, but I've built halogen, HID, and LED lights. Looking at those lightheads they do not look to be designed for tight focus, which is important in our turbid local waters. Without tight focus you get lots of backscatter (think high-beams in a snowstorm). If you have a $350 budget I'd keep my eyes out for a used 10w HID canister light (Salvo, Dive Rite, etc.) They are a good value IMHO if you buy them in the $300-$375 range and will outperform anything you'll find new at that price.

[Waynne Fowler]

I own 3 night riders. 2 are in FUBAR. The one on my bike is great but they couldn't pay me to take another dive light.
Save your pennies and buy a light that will last you forever. Iv got 1000's in lights and had I just sucked it up on the front side I'd have spent half the coin. Its not easy but its the cheapest way to go. There's a couple guys on the board here who build lights and they've always gotten great reviews. H2odoctor comes to mind right away.

[Dashrynn]

Check out the DIY thread, I rebuilt a crappy light and made it outshine a 10watt hid. But the one in the DIY thread is vlads build, some people would rather pay someone than attempt building a light.

[diverden]

I haven't heard anything good about the Niterider lights and I only know one person that uses one. You just don't really see them used. I used to dive a UK C8 but I like to have 2 hands when diving and not have an anchor attached to my wrist which is flashing distress signals when I let go of it to gain the use of my hand. +1 on a proper can light, +1 for tight beam. One of the most important things a light is for, is for communication and it's hard to do that with a wide beam.

[renoun]

... also notice Niterider makes dive lights. I like their Mt. Bike lights. Anyone use these?

I dove with somebody using one last week and my UK C8 LED was brighter with a more focused spot, and I don't have much positive to say about my UK.

[scottsax]

I'm going to agree with airsix. I bought my Salvo 10W HID used off another forum for $400 or so. I've since replaced the bulb, but even so, it was still cheaper than a new one. That said, there are some really cool LED lights being produced by the DIY folks on this board-you'd also be well served to talk to them.

And whether you know it or not yet, you want a canister light with a goodman handle.

[LCF]

We have had a Nite Rider light for six years, and although we have had a couple of issues with it (that Nite Rider took care of promptly) we have had issues with our other lights, too (which Light Monkey takes care of, promptly). The two things I don't like about the Nite Rider are the clip that holds the battery pack to the BC, and the very long cord. The clip is useful, if you are trying to use the light with a traditional BC that does not have a harness webbing waist strap, because you can clip it onto any short segment of strap you can find. But it WILL let go, sometimes during the dive, but quite often with boat entries. And the ridiculously long cord can cause safety problems, if it gets wrapped around your inflator (ask me how I know).

Good lights are important here, not just for seeing critters, but for keeping buddies together and facilitating communication. You need a bright light, much brighter than what you would need, for example, for night diving in the tropics. You also need a light with a pretty tight focus, because a diffuse light will simply light up all the particulates in the water (like headlights in fog) and not work very well for spotting animals or for signaling.

If budget is a serious issue, I would get a good hand-held backup light, like a Halcyon Scout, a Photon Torpedo, or even a Dorcy Penetrator. Stepping up a bit are the Light & Motion SOLAS lights, but their price is such that you could get a used can light for the same amount of money. Hand-held lights are inexpensive and easily stowed, but they are a PITA, because they tie up a hand you might need to do something else, and they are very easily lost. The SOLAS lights do have the advantage of having a soft Goodman-type handle, but you can get a light sock for other hand-held lights, too.

A better choice IS a canister-type light, because you attach the canister to your BC, and the cord means you can't lose the lighthead. You also get more power and more burn time. The downside is price. The cheapest canister lights run in the 5 to 600 dollar range, and they're not as well made as the more expensive ones, and more prone to leak. However, as already stated, if you look (for example, on the Deco Stop board) you can find people selling older HID lights in that same range. I have two spares, one of which has a 5 hour burn time and cost me $600, and one has a 2 hour burn time and cost me $400. Both work great.

LED lights are more durable and more tolerant of being switched on and off, but the really bright, focused ones aren't as bright or as focused as the HIDs, and cost more.

Lots of choices, but if budget is a big issue, I'd either look for a used can or buy something you'll be able to use as a backup light once you can move up to what you really want. One thing I would advise AGAINST -- don't buy a big, pistol grip light like the Light Cannon. I can guarantee you won't like using it. Too big to stow, to big to hold and do anything else, and your buddy will have epileptic fits if you let the thing hang on its lanyard and spin!

[raptor]

FYI
Nightrider dive light section went out of business. So I would not get one no matter how good. Because you can not get any support anymore.

I know first hand and I am now in the market for a light my self.

[inflex]

For a great all-around dive light, you can't beat the UK C8 LED+. Burn time last just shy of forever, and they have a perfect beam spread that works for just about any diving condition anywhere. They're also very rugged.

Canister lights aren't for everyone, and an ultra-tight and bright beam isn't necessary or desired in many situations. There are many tradeoffs such as cost, burn time, maintenance, and support for the higher output of canister lights.

A light like the C8 will serve you well until such time (if) you decide you want a higher output light and for what specific purposes. Even then, it'll be a great backup.

There is nothing wrong with a pistol grip light on a lanyard attached to your BC. In fact, this is far more preferable than something fixed to the back of your hand especially if you do need to use your hands for something.

[Nwbrewer]

In fact, this is far more preferable than something fixed to the back of your hand especially if you do need to use your hands for something.

I strongly disagree. I've never had an issue using my hands for anything while using a goodman handle and if I want to clip it off, it just as easy as clipping off a big old pistol grip.

I have had MANY dives however where the disco ball effect from a buddy's dangling pistol grip light has driven me batty. If you get a pistol grip light, and must swim around with it clipped off, please turn it off first. Your buddies will thank you.

Just say no to disco balls!

Jake

[inflex]

Suffice to say a loose hanging grip/setup is a far more flexible when you need to use both hands and the light itself. I know this from operating a 2-handed camera rig that would require some pretty interesting contortionist maneuvers if I used a goodman grip the way it's meant to be used.

It's good practice to turn off the light when you don't need it. And with a LED, that's not a problem. Also, I've been distracted by the 'disco ball' as much as the errant 'laser beam'.

[airsix]

inflex, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but have you owned a canister light? I've owned, and trained with pocket torch, pistol-grip, lantern, and canister lights. Having used all of the above I can not find any legitimate argument against back-of-the-hand lighting (be it canister with umbilical, or a small self-contained light on the back of the hand). A canister light head is not "fixed to the back of your hand" as you say. Back of the hand is the normal position, but it is a trivial thing to switch hands, drape over the neck, or clip to harness (pointing light either upward or downward). In the past week I've done all of the above frequently, often while manipulating a camera, DPV, or all 3 simultaneously. A properly configured umbilical lighthead is extremely versatile and significantly more controllable than anything which simply hangs from a lanyard. I'm going to take a hard-line stand on that.

Here is a video showing one way to configure an umbilical in a very flexible manner allowing easy hand switching as well as the ability to control the area of illumination in a hands-free manner.

You don't need a canister light to use these methods of light management. There are many great torch-style lights which can be mounted in a goodman-style handle and used in the same manner.

[Dashrynn]

I have to agree with Jake, if I had bought a high quality backup light than a pistol grip I WOULDN'T have a piece of junk light sitting in my closet.

What about a sl3? I dove with someone who had one, was pretty impressed with the throw. It would get you by until you could afford a nice 10w. Look on other forums for used can lights, they can be in the 250-400$ range.

[Dashrynn]

I know this from operating a 2-handed camera rig that would require some pretty interesting contortionist maneuvers if I used a goodman grip the way it's meant to be used.

Having also operated a 2 handed camera rig, I can't see how hard it is to use a goodman handle and operate the camera. Do you put the goodman in your left hand? Also operating a power inflator is not hard, done it thousands of times.

[H20doctor]

lights ...? thanks waynne ... nwbrewer, airsix, Vlad , Dusty, and me all build lights ...

[airsix]

Novice, I recommend you buy a good torch style light like one of these. Dont' be fooled by these lights being called "backup" lights. They are backup lights in terms of technical dive equipment, not in terms of recreational gear. They will far outperform and be more durable than the typical recreational stuff sold as primary lights. Buy quality and only cry once. There is a lot of technical gear that is ideally suited to recreational diving because of it's durability and ergonomics. The Light Monkey model would be an especially excellent (bulletproof) piece of equipment. (I like twist-head lights. Slider-switches can be less reliable) Put it on a goodman handle with a double-ender bolt snap configured like in the video from my last post. The 3w LED lights in my link above average around 230 lumen of output and 8-10 hours burn time in a slender robust package (compare to UK C8 LED+ 170 lumen output @ 8hr burn time.) When you get around to buying a larger more powerful light you can remove the first from the goodman handle and configure it as a backup light where it will continue to be a useful piece of equipment, thus extending the value of your initial investment.

[inflex]

So go ahead and walk through swapping hands while holding a 2h camera and strobes. Sure you can clip it, juggle your camera, wrap it around your neck, or try some arm/camera contortion. Or use a pistol grip that allows 360 degree control of light with nothing more than the movement of a couple of fingers or pick up and operate with either hand single-handedly... The point is a goodman grip isn't the end-all be-all and a pistol grip is not without its merits. Otherwise only goodman grips will exist. You guys are pointing a newer diver with a budget towards more technical and costly canister lights, while pushing towards light features that have very specific purposes.

Ever shined a tight 1000 lumen laser on a nudibranch? Watch the head and the gills. (150 lumens is bad enough.) Just because you've trained with something, and it works well for your application of diving, doesn't mean it'll work well for someone else and their style. For the vast majority of recreational diving here, a wider beam works better and makes for more enjoyable diving. And as I've said before, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a pistol grip.

Oh, hard lines don't bother me. Seen plenty on the internet.

[Dashrynn]

So go ahead and walk through swapping hands while holding a 2h camera and strobes. Sure you can clip it, juggle your camera, wrap it around your neck, or try some arm/camera contortion. Or use a pistol grip that allows 360 degree control of light with nothing more than the movement of a couple of fingers or pick up and operate with either hand single-handedly... The point is a goodman grip isn't the end-all be-all and a pistol grip is not without its merits. Otherwise only goodman grips will exist. You guys are pointing a newer diver with a budget towards more technical and costly canister lights, while pushing towards light features that have very specific purposes.

Ever shined a tight 1000 lumen laser on a nudibranch? Watch the head and the gills. (150 lumens is bad enough.) Just because you've trained with something, and it works well for your application of diving, doesn't mean it'll work well for someone else and their style. For the vast majority of recreational diving here, a wider beam works better and makes for more enjoyable diving. And as I've said before, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a pistol grip.

Oh, hard lines don't bother me. Seen plenty on the internet.

[spatman]

Novice, i recommend borrowing different lights to try out and see what style you prefer, and what might fall within your budget. i'm sure if you asked, you'd find several people willing to let you try out their gear.

[airsix]

Novice, i recommend borrowing different lights to try out and see what style you prefer, and what might fall within your budget. i'm sure if you asked, you'd find several people willing to let you try out their gear.

+1

That is the best advice so far.

[Dashrynn]

Novice, i recommend borrowing different lights to try out and see what style you prefer, and what might fall within your budget. i'm sure if you asked, you'd find several people willing to let you try out their gear.

+1

That is the best advice so far.

+2 seeing is believing.

[diverden]

I think we scared him away.

[H20doctor]

I am a photog.. And a HD underwater movie maker.. The brighter the light the better, laser and all.. Id even blast a nudi with 5000 lumens.. If it were the right CRI color..

[Dusty2]

I am a photog.. And a HD underwater movie maker.. The brighter the light the better, laser and all.. Id even blast a nudi with 5000 lumens.. If it were the right CRI color..

You gotta quit blasting those nudies guys. I don't like gun shy nudies.