Side mount question

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:39 pm

For those of you who are into the side mount school of thought I have a question. I have been watching some of the side mount videos on You tube and it seems that most are using aluminum 80's Is this true? Wouldn't this be a problem late in the dive when they begin to get buoyant? I have been considering testing the waters to see if they would work for me. since I have only HP steel 120's I'm thinking about what would be an inexpensive way to try this out.

Blow-N-Bubbles · Post by **Blow-N-Bubbles** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:48 pm

There's a side mount intro class at the LDS here in Vancouver in July, which I hoping will answer that very question !! With numerous others I have. I know its a drive for you, but at least you get to try a few rigs, in the pool and get some questions answered !! And its

FREE !!

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:56 pm

It depends on where you're diving. I don't use AL80's here ... I use HP100's. You're right, the AL80's would be pretty buoyant. You trim them by putting a 5# weight on the tank strap. Me, I'd rather just use the right tank for the job ... the HP100's trim beautifully without trim weights ... and they give you 23% more gas to breathe ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:50 pm

I was considering my 95's, but I read that towards the end of the dive they get tail light?

But I too am seriously considering sidemount, as with my back, doubles is not an option. I like the flexibility of sidemount..

WylerBear · Post by **WylerBear** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:10 pm

I use my LP85's that I used to have configured as doubles. They work great. But one of the joys of sidemount is you can use anything. Dan Robertson dove two AL40's as sidemount when they dove Crater Lake. Made the hike down and back up much nicer. I know those that dive sidemount in Bonaire use AL80's.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:22 pm

Some sidemount rigs, like the Razor for example, are designed for aluminum tanks primarily and actually have two attachment points for the tank leashes. One is the on the buttplate for when the tanks are full and riding low, and the other is usually a d-ring on the waist strap that is used when the tank become buoyant, which positions the bottom of the tank lower so they stay in trim when breathed down.

For rigs that aren't enigineered that way, like the Nomads, Hollis SMS100s, etc, you'd likely want to add a few pounds to the the cam band, like Bob mentioned.

For our style of diving here, steel tanks are the way to go, and in my personal experience, Worthington hp100s and lp85s are the best choice because they stay level and in trim when breathed down. PST hp100s are pretty good, but they too get tail light when breathed down, though not as bad as most LP tanks, which get pretty floaty. So other than the Worthingtons, most other steel tanks will still require some weight on the cam bands, but at least they are more negative in general than aluminum tanks.

Though there may be a other tanks I haven't either tried or seen used or maybe don't even know of that might work ok.

RIch, what are you planning to use as a sidemount BC?

Blow-N-Bubbles wrote:There's a side mount intro class at the LDS here in Vancouver in July, which I hoping will answer that very question !! With numerous others I have. I know its a drive for you, but at least you get to try a few rigs, in the pool and get some questions answered !! And its FREE !!

Which shop?

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:07 pm

spatman wrote: RIch, what are you planning to use as a sidemount BC?

Due to my very limited budget I was thinking I would just buy the butt pad and attach it to my BP/wing setup.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:19 pm

Dusty2 wrote:
spatman wrote: RIch, what are you planning to use as a sidemount BC?
Due to my very limited budget I was thinking I would just buy the butt pad and attach it to my BP/wing setup.

You'll need to figure out a way to keep your wing from taco-ing. Some people add a second plate on top to keep the wing spread out. That also helps add weight to your upper torso, too.

Georgia (Wylerbear) user her bp/w for sidemount, but I honestly don't remember how she has it rigged...

WylerBear · Post by **WylerBear** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:41 pm

I have an OMS adaptor pad specifically for my OMS bp/w. Works quite well. Lots cheaper than buying a whole new rig.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:49 pm

WylerBear wrote:I have an OMS adaptor pad specifically for my OMS bp/w. Works quite well. Lots cheaper than buying a whole new rig.

Thanks Georgia, Do you have a web address where I might find the adapter?

And thanks Spats for the help too. I need to find someone with a couple of hp100's I could borrow for a few days.

WylerBear · Post by **WylerBear** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:49 am

This should get you there:
http://www.omsdive.com/backplate.html#SIDEMOUNT

raptor · Post by **raptor** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:48 am

Hp 100 are nice for more air and less lead but you cannot stay in trim if you unclip the back.

A lot of people use al with no weight on them as it will also put you out of trim. Or they use lp tanks as they tended to be more neutral.

That is what people did down in fl for there cave diving.

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:44 am

Dusty, what wing do you have? If it's got an internal bladder and outer cordura cover, you can put a grommet on either side down near your waist, and run a bungee with a bolt snap around your waist Razor style to keep it from tacoing.

If you've got some old steel 72's you don't even need a butt pad. They stay so close to neutral that just adding a 2nd waist D-ring on your RHS will allow you to do some Openwater sidemount diving.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:44 am

raptor wrote:Hp 100 are nice for more air and less lead but you cannot stay in trim if you unclip the back.

The need to unclip the back is rare, and really not necessary. But both ORdiver and myself have successfully unclipped hp100s from the buttplate and stayed pretty much in trim. Besides, if you have a need to unclip the tank in open water, trim is probably not a high priority at the moment.

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:23 am

spatman wrote:
raptor wrote:Hp 100 are nice for more air and less lead but you cannot stay in trim if you unclip the back.
The need to unclip the back is rare, and really not necessary. But both ORdiver and myself have successfully unclipped hp100s from the buttplate and stayed pretty much in trim. Besides, if you have a need to unclip the tank in open water, trim is probably not a high priority at the moment.

Are you talking unclipping the tanks and moving them out front superman style? I can do it and stay in trim, but it's not a lot of fun. Other than screwing around, I don't see the need in OW, and in a confined environment, you won't have to do it that long that it would really be an issue I don't think.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:53 am

A pair of lp72's would gain me very little in fact I would actually lose some. Right now I diving an HP120 with a 30cf pony. Although I try to never use the pony. I certainly don't want to have to deal with more buoyancy and adding more weight.

I do need to quit having to carry all that weight down to and back up from the water at once though. The old knee is beginning to send me nasty messages.

It's hell getting old.

WylerBear · Post by **WylerBear** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:20 am

What I found Dusty, is it is great to walk down the water without tanks on your back. However, having to make several trips sometimes makes it worse on my knees. It depends on the site. Sometimes I wear both tanks down for the first dive, leave them in the water between dives, then carry them out either individually or together at the end of the second dive. If the trail is steep or long I don't want to carry all that weight at once. Also depends how bad my knees are on any given day. Ultimately, I think sidemount is easier on my knees even if I have to make several trips.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:54 am

WylerBear wrote:What I found Dusty, is it is great to walk down the water without tanks on your back. However, having to make several trips sometimes makes it worse on my knees. It depends on the site. Sometimes I wear both tanks down for the first dive, leave them in the water between dives, then carry them out either individually or together at the end of the second dive. If the trail is steep or long I don't want to carry all that weight at once. Also depends how bad my knees are on any given day. Ultimately, I think sidemount is easier on my knees even if I have to make several trips.

The idea of being able to leave those tanks and go dump your gear and come back is mighty appealing indeed! Having stumbled and gone down and not been able to stand back up with all that weight on your back is a powerful incentive to find a better way.

I have to agree that doing the superman thing with the tanks is something I really can't see a need for in my diving but it sure is sexy watchin those dudes flying thru those wrecks! {which of course is something I won't be doin)

those videos with Steve Bogaerts and Steve Martin on you tube are really inspiring.

raptor · Post by **raptor** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:25 pm

spatman wrote:
raptor wrote:Hp 100 are nice for more air and less lead but you cannot stay in trim if you unclip the back.
The need to unclip the back is rare, and really not necessary. But both ORdiver and myself have successfully unclipped hp100s from the buttplate and stayed pretty much in trim. Besides, if you have a need to unclip the tank in open water, trim is probably not a high priority at the moment.

Yes I was talking about in a confined environment.

I will say most of the people were diving lp 95 and al stages, that was the most common. But that was also for some of the same issues and also very different ones.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:45 pm

Dusty2 wrote:A pair of lp72's would gain me very little in fact I would actually lose some. Right now I diving an HP120 with a 30cf pony.

Drop the weightbelt and rig the pony as a stage you can unclip and leave?

I don't see how SM is going to solve your issues. You might consider a GEM SCR though. Takes a chunk of lead (which you could drop on shore and get later) to sink. But you could do 2 long dives on one change of sorb and an AL80. Or maybe 2 AL63s, one for each dive.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:06 pm

CaptnJack wrote:I don't see how SM is going to solve your issues.

Using a hand truck to take the tanks to and from the water will definitely be lighter on the knee(s).

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:16 pm

spatman wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:I don't see how SM is going to solve your issues.

Using a hand truck to take the tanks to and from the water will definitely be lighter on the knee(s).

How is that any different than using a hand truck with a single hp120? Not many sites have decent hand truck access either.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:22 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
spatman wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:I don't see how SM is going to solve your issues.

Using a hand truck to take the tanks to and from the water will definitely be lighter on the knee(s).
How is that any different than using a hand truck with a single hp120? Not many sites have decent hand truck access either.

Not much different, really. As long as you're comfortable putting your rig on in the water.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:29 pm

spatman wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
spatman wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:I don't see how SM is going to solve your issues.

Using a hand truck to take the tanks to and from the water will definitely be lighter on the knee(s).
How is that any different than using a hand truck with a single hp120? Not many sites have decent hand truck access either.
Not much different, really. As long as you're comfortable putting your rig on in the water.

2 MP72s would weigh more than the 120 but maybe 10lbs less (each) out of the water. So that might help a tiny bit I suppose. If unloading the car is an issue. I am not sure the GEM would really help that much, they take alot of lead. But an SCR would allow for use of a much smaller tank to achieve similar dive times, but not be as big and heavy as a CCR.

I suspect the real solution is to have sherpas!

Blow-N-Bubbles · Post by **Blow-N-Bubbles** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Blow-N-Bubbles wrote:There's a side mount intro class at the LDS here in Vancouver in July, which I hoping will answer that very question !! With numerous others I have. I know its a drive for you, but at least you get to try a few rigs, in the pool and get some questions answered !! And its FREE !!

Which shop?[/quote]

Thunder Reef in Vancouver, Tenatively set in July pending the number of people showing interest. SO more people need to Show interest !! Please !! So I can go ask all the questions and actually play with a few rigs !

Northwest Dive Club