HID flickers but won't turn on

[archisgore]

I recently got a fancy new canister light from lightmonkey. I used to turn it on for a few seconds every time I reattached the canister head to check that everything was connected properly.

The light worked fine on Wednesday's WWW dive and when I connected it today morning, I see it sparking profusely in the bulb and then goes dead.

Is my battery not charged or is the bulb damaged or is it a bad idea to ever turn it on outside the water?

How do I replace it? I will of course go to the dive shop but was curious.

[Matt S.]

I think that you are not supposed to turn on an HID for just a few seconds like that. If you need to check it, turn it on and let it run for a few minutes. Once you turn it off, don't turn it back on for a while. How long is "a while?" Opinions vary. I like to give it at least ~15 minutes so everything cools down.

So anyway, it sounds like either the bulb or the ballast is dead, but you should rule out the battery before you send it in.

What you did may or may not have caused a problem. I had a Salvo (pre-Light Monkey) HID that dropped dead on me twice for no good reason. It was fixed under warranty both times and after the second repair has been fine.

A better pre-dive routine would probably be turning the light on at the end of gearing up. That way, you have a chance to fiddle with the connection if you need to, and if it works you can leave it on while you walk to the water.

If you need to check the battery while packing up your gear, do that with a multimeter, which you can get for about $4 at Harbor Freight if you don't have one already.

It is OK to run the lights for a few minutes out of the water. It may be OK to run them for longer... I have used mine as a flashlight a couple of times without apparent ill effect, but don't tell the Scuba Police.

[Dusty2]

That's what happens when you buy HID! Unfortunately they have some very real drawbacks. They should never be turned on and then off like that. Since you are getting sparking I would guess bulb since the ballast obviously is trying to fire.

Good luck

[archisgore]

Lesson learnt. :-) I'll send it back to lightmonkey. It's still under warranty - less than 2 weeks old.

[HakkTW]

As said, you shouldn't turn HID on-off quickly. If you turn it off you should leave it off for 2 minutes minimum as a rule of thumb. It is ok to run a HID out of water for a few, but don't run it dry for longer than 30 seconds to a minute prior to a dive. If it heats up while dry and then you take it into 45 degree water it cools too rapidly and bulb or tube can/do/have/will shatter.

[Jeremy]

Lesson learnt. :-) I'll send it back to lightmonkey. It's still under warranty - less than 2 weeks old.

Just curious but what made you decide to get a light monkey over one of Dusty's lights?

[Matt S.]

I wasn't asked, but speaking for myself not having a web page that details the products and their price is an immediate turn-off. The Facebook page doesn't list that data front and center either. There are some pictures buried on the Smugmug page, but it doesn't have any obvious product info either--just an email address.

Also, because I don't know Dusty personally I find it confusing that it's "Dusty's lights" but the Smugmug page lists Rich as a contact. So is Dusty a nickname or company name? Is there a Dusty and a Rich?

I am sure the lights are good because people around here like them, and they're no dummies. And I do like to support local small businesses. But before I can seriously consider one of the lights, I need to see all the product data on an old-fashioned web page. If I have to go asking for it, or get into a Facebook relationship to find it, I'll never bother.

I've been looking at those pages for a few minutes while writing this post, and I still have no idea what the run time is, price, warranty, light output... all I know is it is LED and uses hobby store batteries.

I'm not trying to be a jerk; those are my honest impressions as a passer-by who does not have first-hand experience with one of the lights. I hope this helps.

[archisgore]

Matt,
In my case, I have heard of Dusty's lights from multiple people, and locally he lends them out to try out a couple of times. Besides, enough people around here have them that inevitably in a group of people, you can easily check one out from a fellow diver or Dusty himself.

The reviews were rave too. I've heard multiple comparisons about the price-performance ratio, and his LEDs beat an HID according to many people. So in that sense, there wasn't any lack of trust on my part. In fact, I would go for his light blindy for my next one.

Jeremy,
I just picked an HID because, well, I just didn't know enough, and wanted at least ONE light, which, regardless of where I was, I wouldn't have to double-think my light for even a small percentage of dives/locations. I got a lot of confusing information about lumens and watts and tight beams, etc. that I didn't understand. So I asked Mark from 5th D what he uses and asked for one-more-of-the-same.

For a bit of background, earlier this year I spent a lot of money on good enough jacket BC, yoke regs, etc. but as I learn more, that for actually LESS money, one is outfitted with a wing+backplate, or a DIN reg, and that once you dive a wing, you never worry about "what BC do you have?" Will I ever test the limits of my Wing vs a jacket? Maybe never. But when I pack, I no longer think about it - if a spot/location/situation is divable, my BC works and can lift any tank. My DIN valves will work with Yoke adapters and can be filled at any dive shop. Basically I got weary of questions about whether something will work in "certain conditions", and now I'm just picking up supersets (for example, balanced ice-diving nitrox-certified regs will cover me in all gases, situations I will ever encounter, and I have one less thing to care about). So I'm just trying to follow the crowd until I understand scuba diving more. That logic led me to get at least one HID which I wouldn't have to debate.

[spatman]

I've been extremely happy with my LM HID and never regretted buying it ever.

[Joshua Smith]

I've been extremely happy with my LM HID and never regretted buying it ever.

I own 2. They have performed flawlessly for over 5 years.

[Dusty2]

I wasn't asked, but speaking for myself not having a web page that details the products and their price is an immediate turn-off. The Facebook page doesn't list that data front and center either. There are some pictures buried on the Smugmug page, but it doesn't have any obvious product info either--just an email address.

Also, because I don't know Dusty personally I find it confusing that it's "Dusty's lights" but the Smugmug page lists Rich as a contact. So is Dusty a nickname or company name? Is there a Dusty and a Rich?

I've been looking at those pages for a few minutes while writing this post, and I still have no idea what the run time is, price, warranty, light output... all I know is it is LED and uses hobby store batteries.

I'm not trying to be a jerk; those are my honest impressions as a passer-by who does not have first-hand experience with one of the lights. I hope this helps.

Matt, sorry you couldn't find the info you needed but it doesn't seem to be a problem with the large number of people that have bought them. If I had a fancy web page and brochures and sold through retail shops you would have to pay retail like you do with those other shops. If your willing to pay 2 to 3 times as much to see a fancy web site have at it. I don't have the time or knowledge to put up and maintain a fancy web site and I can't afford to pay someone to do it for me. As for lumins and watts and all that other advertising stuff, they are all just numbers on a sheet of paper or your screen. No one bothers to actually test such things so they just slap numbers up there that are competitive and you have to take their word for it. There is no viable way to compare between LED's and HID's other than side by side. they don't use the same terms or testing methods. Rating an LED by watts is only guess work, they don't use that term just as HID's don't use lumins No disrespect meant just explaining where I am coming from. If you build an excellent product priced way below the competition your customers will sell them for you and mine do! I can't afford to go nose to nose with the big companies and couldn't keep up with sales if I did. I'm glad you bought from Light monkey and I'm sure they will support you well. I hope you get years of happy service from your light.

Oh! my name IS Richard, Dusty is just a screen name that just seemed to stick. Everyone here just calls me Dusty so why should I argue with them. Besides Dusty was the best dog I ever owned!

[mpenders]

...Is my battery not charged...?

You should definitely check this before shipping the light back, as the HID ballast requires a min voltage to operate. Charging up the battery and trying again should be a quick and easy means of eliminating it as a potential issue.


Mike

[archisgore]

Yup. Did that. Tried with mark's charged battery too. The thing sparks profusely. Fortunately I do have plenty of back LED's. it's good I'm learning all this as the winter begins. I ordered the light specifically for all those cloudy days when I can't do anything else.

[Matt S.]

Dusty, you already have 99% of what you need to answer questions from someone like me in place. You have a Facebook page and a Smugmug page. If you could at least put stuff like price and run time in those places it would sure help people like me learn about your products. Typing that information into an existing web page that you already control wouldn't double or triple the cost of your products.

I understand the value of word of mouth but making word of mouth the exclusive means to learn about your products means that people like me are never going to learn about them unless I happen to meet the right person at a dive site. If that is OK with you, it is no skin off my nose. But like I said, I am never going to be interested in a product that requires a scavenger hunt just to get the price list, and I can't be the only person like that.

Or, maybe I am. I am also the only person in the world who doesn't use Facebook.

[kdupreez]

hey Archie,

That HID needs to go back to LM for sure. Corey and his team are usually very very good at customer service.

I own 2 x HID (21W and 35W) lights and an LED (12W) canister lights and while LED is pretty awesome technology, but is not at the levels of brightness and beam concentration as HID lights. Not yet anyways..

I have never had any issues in the past almost 2 years with my Light Monkey 35W HID and netiher with my Halcyon 21W HID.

Diving out here if I had to pick between my LED or HID, I would pick using my HID light 99% of the time.. Nothing wrong with my LED, I just prefer the brightness and beam tightness of my HID.

IF I didnt have an HID, I would actually be more than happy just with my LED thought.. LED is a lot more robust, burns longer and travels much better too..

[H20doctor]

If you sell a product.. Then the product needs info, and a price for the consumer.. A facebook or web page should have that info.. Otherwise your buyers are left in the dark.. and Thats not smart business on any level

[Matt S.]

Sorry I threadjacked BTW!

Archisgore, I am sure that once your HID is repaired it will give you a lot of trouble-free service.

Assuming your battery is good, you might want to start by simply buying a bulb. If the new bulb works, great. You probably just killed the old one. You'd be back in the water without the hassle of warranty service.

If a bulb doesn't do the job, that means you probably have a ballast problem, and a warranty issue, and a spare bulb... which never hurts.

I am sure others can advise you on exactly what kind of bulb you need, and I am also pretty sure you can find a place to get it that will cost less that getting it from LM.

[LCF]

Send it back to LM. Their customer service is absolutely incomparable. I have been diving their lights since before they were LM, and I have needed service very few times. But when I have, they have gone so far out of their way to make the process as quick and painless as possible, that they have me as a loyal customer forever.