New to diving.... want my cake and eat it too.

[2muchtq]

I am VERY new to diving. (May19-20 I will do my checkout dives)


I am looking for some direction to go on gear that wont break the bank... AND will take cold water diving in stride.


I am looking for suggestions on first/second stage regulator. Computer. BCD. 7mm farmer john.


There is a package from Scubatoys that has an Aeris Atmos Sport reg, Mares brigade viper octo, and a Mares Air Lab (air integrated) computer.
Selling for 625. (it has the primary stage too)


Anyhow. Any direction or opinions of the above package would be great.

Take care
Mark

[Tom Nic]

Troll your local dive shops before you purchase on the internet. Come north if you need to to look at other shops.

You might find "deals" but they will not be with you customer service wise. What do you do when something inevitably craps out? and it will...

Talk to folks outside your immediate instructor and dive shop. Get other opinions.

As you find specific deals I know that there are people that are willing to comment here. You will NOT find unanimity... good folks have different tastes and reasons and it's all good as you gather information.

Also, rent as long as you can before you buy (at least a 10 dives or so!) Some shops will let you rent gear ahead of time. That way you are at least getting something that you know you like and works.

Your tastes and needs will evolve as you dive more, that's the nature of the beast. There will be purchases you'd like to have back, again, that's the nature of the beast.

Go with a drysuit! Do that from the getgo... it is SO worth it, if you want to actually dive, that is. I don't know any divers who dive wet who dive lots and year round... (the best diving is in Winter!) I'm sure there are one or two, but everyone I know who dives regularly in the PNW dives dry.

Cold water diving is not cheap... anybody who tells you otherwise is selling something. Cold water diving is gear intensive, and that is for a good reason! Conditions are tough, (temperature, limited viz, etc.) but if you are geared for them they are not a problem. But it is doable, and the more you dive, the more you can justify the solid expenditure on the gear. If you're only going to dive in warm water on vacation, then rent exclusively!

[2muchtq]

Thanks!


I realize that I will have 21 opinions out of 20 divers responses. That is the nature of the beast.

All I am looking for ATM is information.

As for cold water being cheap.... I didn't figure it would be. I expect to spend about 1700-2K on gear for cold. What I am trying to get away from is spending the money on a name.... while a lesser 'name' gives better prices and performance.


I think my first two gear purchases are going to be a BCD and a 7mil suit.

I have thought seriously about dry suits..... we'll see where the money lies at the end of the summer.


Thanks for the info!

Take care
Mark

[Tom Nic]

Thanks!

I think my first two gear purchases are going to be a BCD and a 7mil suit.
Take care
Mark

Dry, Dry, Dry... Must dive dry... :rr:

Zeagle makes a great BCD for cold water diving... Ranger or Tech will do nicely.

Also, are you a stock size or do you need custom stuff?

[Tom Nic]

I am looking for suggestions on first/second stage regulator.

Take care
Mark

The Oceanic Delta 4 is a great reg. Atomic makes some great regs as well

[Dmitchell]

That computer is from what I can tell discontinued awhile ago. I'd make sure you can still get support and service for it. Personally I think its Fugly!

The other stuff in the package is just basic no frills stuff.

Now is a good time to be looking at Aqualung/Apeks they are giving away Octo's with the purchase of the primarys.

By all means shop around. We've all got opinions on what is best and you're right we could argue it to eternity.


Dave

[2muchtq]

LOL. There is NOTHING stock about me. The rental BCD that I am using for my class is size XXL. Fits fairly well. Don't know about when I get a suit on UNDER it. We'll see.


For my suits I will most likely have to have custom made.


I am 5'10 and 300 lbs. <--- told ya nothing stock about me.


My instructor gave me 16lbs of weight. I used 12 (no neoprene with exception of two boots for my fins) I think I could lose a couple more pounds of lead and still be fine.

[Joshua Smith]

Yeah- I buy gear online too, but usually only stuff my Local Dive Shop doesn't carry- OR if it's something I'm not too worried about breaking and it's a lot cheaper than I can find at the shop. Support your LDS- most of them will give you a deal on a package, and it's way easier to get after- sale support and warranty issues dealt with face-to-face. I must say, though- Scubatoys is very good about warranty- but you have to ship the item back to them and then they ship it back to the manufacturer- it can take a while. Also- check craigslist and ebay out.

[Dmitchell]

In that case, You should really go dry. Yes, a custom drysuit is more expensive but the fit and comfort is worth every penny.

Dave

[CaptnJack]

If I had to start over again...

Scubapro Mk10s with a 190 secondary are awesome regs and you can find them used for $150-175. You'll never outgrow it. Scubapro supports discontinued models essentially forever - unlikle some other companies. Won't have a warranty, but it takes years for that to pay for itself.

I would get a DSS stainless plate with ~35lb wing.
https://www.deepseasupply.com/
Tobin has great customer service and will help you chose wisely.

A Suunto vyper computer, and a drysuit. Won't outgrow those for decades either.

Richard

[Joshua Smith]

I've got an almost-new drysuit that would probably fit you. I'm 5'10" and 220#. It's pretty baggy on me....I've been thinking about selling it. You ever up in Seattle?

[Nwbrewer]

2muchtq,

I'd recommend renting for a while as well. It seems expensive right now, but believe me you'll save money in the long run.

It's good to see you're doing some research before you purchase, but what specific gear is best for you is going to depend a lot on your body style for fit, and the type of diving you plan to do.

I made the mistake of buying some gear to get myself started without trying a lot of stuff first, and I've been slowly changing my gear out to better suit the type of diving that I do. That said I'll give you a couple of generic recommendations.

Reg - Get a quality name brand that you can get serviced locally, and that offers a free parts for life type program. Also, go DIN. When you want to dive a yolk tank, you can just use an adapter, but you can't go the other way. (yolk reg to DIN tank)

BC - Make sure and get one that fits you well. Try a few jackets and a few back inflate style. If possible try a backplate and wing setup too, I know a lot of people here dive them and like them. (I like mine, but I bought a back inflate BC first and it was a fine BC also)

Fins - This is one that will definatly depend on your diving style. Most folks seem to prefer either a split fin, or an old school stiff rubber fin like the scubapro jets. It's a matter of preference I'm not gonna get into.

Exposure protection - I still dive wet, mainly because I have a hard time coughing up $1500 for a drysuit. If you can afford it, going dry is probably a good idea, especially if your looking at a new wetsuit. If you can't afford dry try and find a used wetsuit that fits for a good price, as you're eventually going to want to go dry. (I know I do November through March! SI's get chilly, even if the water doesn't.)

Computer - There are lot's of good computers out there, with a large price range. Make sure and look ahead a bit at the type of diving you want to do. Does the computer you're considering handle NITROX? Does it have a backlight (nice to have for night dives) If you violate the NDL does it lock you out? How conservative is the algorithm your computer uses? How does that compare with the computers used by your dive buddies? I'm not a huge fan of AI computers, maybe I'm paranoid, but I trust the old tried and true spg. They've been around forever and the just seem to work, and to me that's important for knowing how much air I have. For me they also seem easier to read.

Lights - Cold water diving (at least the cold water we have around here) pretty much requires that you have a good light. Some people really like the large pistol grip style lights, a LOT of people up here use can light HID's to cut through our crappy vis, but that is about as much investment as a drysuit. You're going to want a backup light eventually anyway, so I'd start out with a nice bright backup size light, something like a UK sl4, or one of the Princeton tech backup lights.

I'll second talking with your local shops see if you can find one that offers some decent prices and customer service before going to buy stuff off the web. Scubatoys is popular for standing behind the stuff they sell, but when you need something fixed in a hurry, or you take it out for a first dive and something needs to be adjusted, do you really want to have to ship it?

Safe diving! If you make it up the the puget sound area throw up a post and I'll see if we can do a dive. Congrats on your upcoming cert.

Jake

[2muchtq]

I've got an almost-new drysuit that would probably fit you. I'm 5'10" and 220#. It's pretty baggy on me....I've been thinking about selling it. You ever up in Seattle?

Rarely.


I used to bounce all over the PNW. Not so anymore.

[dsteding]

I'd say move slow and buy gear that you can live with forever. For what it is worth, I was very impressed by the prices on the package deals that Northwest Sports Divers has in their shop now, I did a quick tally of one package and it was a substantial savings over retail . . . and was also competitive with anything you'd find online (with full backing of an LDS).

I dive Apeks and AL regs, a BP/W (DSS singles, a hodgepodge of stuff for my doubles rig) and I do dive dry. The latter point may be the most crucial, most avid divers around here dive dry, so it may make sense to head that route sooner rather than later. You'll be much more comfortable in the long run.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me, having gone through this gear thing in the last year and a half, I'm happy to offer any advice. One thing Bob Bailey did for me at one point was invite me over to go through his gear garage, I'd be happy to show you all of the stuff I've bought and answer questions at some point.

-Doug

[Tom Nic]

Here's a thread on computers if it hasn't been mentioned:

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=2024

[Tom Nic]

LOL. There is NOTHING stock about me.

Me too! That being said, you will be MUCH more comfortable in a custom dry suit. It is spendy, but for me it made the difference between diving and not diving. I thought I was going to die putting on the rental wetsuits for my classes. I honestly think that the only reason I made it through was that I was HIGHLY motivated to learn to dive and keep diving.

I ended up going with a custom USIA shell suit and I love it. There are other good custom suits on the market, but with your build my guess is that a shell as opposed to neoprene suit would suit you best.

BTW, Nailer's offer is a good one, and with the coin you will plunk down on gear in general and a suit in particular it might be good to plan a day up north, hook up with him, and hit a few of the dive shops as well. Could be a fun day!

Walking around with 80 - 100 lbs of gear on is tough enough, but if you don't have a suit that fits you and you are "comfortable" in it actually becomes a safety issue IMO.

It's all worth it, however, when you step into the water and become weightless!!

[Sounder]

If I had to start over again...

Scubapro Mk10s with a 190 secondary are awesome regs and you can find them used for $150-175. You'll never outgrow it. Scubapro supports discontinued models essentially forever - unlikle some other companies. Won't have a warranty, but it takes years for that to pay for itself.

I would get a DSS stainless plate with ~35lb wing.
https://www.deepseasupply.com/
Tobin has great customer service and will help you chose wisely.

A Suunto vyper computer, and a drysuit. Won't outgrow those for decades either.

Richard

This is a great recommendation - or something close to it. Remember that many people here have been where you're at, bought what they thought they wanted and later had to buy more because they found out what works for them and what doesn't.

It'd also be worth the trip north for Nailer's drysuit. Heck, come up and spend a day diving! It beats the heck out of the lake (then again, I've never been to that lake so what do I know?).

[GillyWeed]

I'll third or maybe it's fourth the LDS.. Dont do the internet for anything that might need a warrantee.. A knife or light maybe but the life saving equipment that you breathe with.. Needs to be able to be serviced.

Also your LDS will should have a few different opinions around the shop for what type of exposure suit will work for your shape and what type of fins you might want. I am not a small girl.. And using the very stiff scubapro twin jets (a fav for most of my buddies up here) would not have been a good choice for me at first. I needed something that had a little more flexibility to it because my legs just weren't strong enough to use the twin jets. I have since changed to them but that was after 100 dives and now my kicking power is way better.

Expect that no matter what you buy you will probably change a few things out down the line. Your body is going to change in ways you cannot expect if you do a lot of diving. You will be using muscles you didn't know you had and after a while if you get the bug like most of us on here you will need to change some gear just because your body has changed.. Its a metamorphosis.. But it is a good one. So sometimes it's better to not buy the most expensive gear right off the bat. I am talking mostly about fitting things (Ie bc, weight belt, suit) not neccessarily the reg and computer. Your LDS might have some used gear that would be a good first investment.

Renting until you know what you want.. That is sage advice too. Just plan on getting the reg and computer and I agree about the spg vs. air integrated (I just trust my spg and the AI's make me all nervous) 1st.. The other stuff can come as you feel out what fits best and feels best. I agree about DIN too.. I didn't follow that advice and had to have my reg converted which cost about $70 but would have been free if I would have just bought a DIN regulator...

Hope we see you up here and in the water with us soon!!!

Cheers,

Holly

[Grateful Diver]

Well, at the risk of offending my LDS friends on here, I'll have to go somewhat against the flow. While I would hesitate to purchase most major gear through most online outlets, there are some Internet vendors who provide EXCELLENT customer service. ScubaToys happens to be one of them.

Can't comment on the specific gear you mentioned, because I haven't dived any of it. I'm a big fan of DSS backplates and wings, Salvo lights, ScubaPro and Apeks regs, and Suunto gauges.

All of that said, do shop around locally and give your local dealers at least a chance to compete with the online vendors. We're fortunate to have several excellent local shops in the area, and it's in the best interest of all of us for them to remain viable businesses. Without our support, that won't happen. For those in the Seattle area - Matt at Northwest Sports Divers has done very well at providing competitive prices on a lot of the gear I've wanted to buy lately. I'd recommend at least giving him a call and seeing what he can offer before purchasing through an online vendor.

For those in the Tacoma area, same goes for Tacoma Scuba.

Seems like those shops are willing to work with you if you give them the chance to.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[CaptnJack]

Yeah DIN, skip the yoke. HP tanks are getting so common and DIN is so superior for HP there's little purpose getting yoke and then swap it out when you want tanks in 6-12 months. DIN to yoke adapters are cheap ($35) but you can't go the other way (easily).

I would strongly suggest a wrist computer too. They are so much easier to use (and streamlined) than a clunky console. Even if you're diving air, make sure its nitrox capable, that way there's room to grow into it next year. This is one item that an LDS is really the only way to go.

Richard

[Sounder]

I second the DIN! I bought my k/yoke adapter when I bought my reg as I expected to travel with it, but around here DIN is the only way to go!!

[gomi_otaku]

I'd rent until UWS Diver's Fair comes around, and then see just how much stuff you can win! It's amazing what they give away, and all you have to do is stand around. Drysuits, BCDs, Reg sets...of course, you might end up with nothing for your time, but the presentations are well worth the time spent, and they're free as well. Plus getting to talk to the factory reps.
Also, the NW Dive News Treasure Hunt is coming up in June, another chance to get free stuff, for a $35 entry fee, and you get to dive as well!
Anybody who complains about how expensive diving is doesn't do their homework and see just how much stuff is given away for free! Almost every shop has at least one big "event" every year, with massive discounts and giveaways.
gomi_

[GillyWeed]

I will second that the UWS dive fair is an incredible event.. But it is in Seattle so that is kind of a drive for someone in OR... But the LDS down there might have something like it too. However, the UWS dive fair is an event not to be missed. (and now I am not an employee of UWS, but Fed Way UWS is my LDS. I know I sound like I am promo'ing them). If you can get up here for the Friday, Saturday, Sunday event, get some PS diving in and save a bunch of money on gear.. I can't see how that is a bad thing..