Oriskany Sunk Deeper: Safer or Not?

[60south]

I thought this was an interesting comment from an Undercurrent Online email I received (I don't have the full story):

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The U.S.S. Oriskany in Pensacola, Florida
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It's a great wreck dive, though a bit deep for sport divers. The flight
deck is at 135 feet -- or it was, that is. But after Hurricane Gustav
pushed through the Gulf of Mexico, the sunken ship dropped about 10 feet
deeper. Now dive operators are worried that the drop to 145 feet will give
pause to divers wanting to stay within the 130 foot "safe diving limits."
On the other hand, some believe the wreck will be safer because fewer
people will be tempted to drop 15 feet past 130 just to touch the flight
deck.

My first impression was that the last comment was wishful thinking. In clear water, 15ft is "right there". From what I've seen, it would take a very strong-willed diver to not dip down and touch the deck. My bet: people will still dive it just as frequently, but now there will be more sport divers setting personal depth records... Other thoughts?

[airsix]

I always assumed that it's original depth/location was chosen specifically to exclude sport divers. I thought it was a wreck just for the tech community.

My self imposed depth limit is 110ft until I'm tri-ox certified so the 10ft change would have no effect on me anyway. Even if it was in my backyard I wouldn't have been on it even at the old depth. Sending sport divers to 145ft on air (well they're not going on Nitrox!) is stupid regardless of tank size. But an 80? No way, no day. Would I dive it with the right training and gas? You bet.

-Ben

[Joshua Smith]

FWIW, the giant control tower starts at around 70', I believe- and it's supposed to be a spectacular recreational dive. It's the flight deck that sank below the 130' redline. I guess it used to be at 135', but many rec divers just shrugged at the 5' difference.

I voted for the "Yes, as long as everything seemed OK" option. But in reality, I would only do this dive on an AL 80 if it was slung under my arm, and I'd be headed down to look at the propellers! Plenty of time to look at the flight deck on the ascent!

[Nwbrewer]

The deck is 145. A significant portion of the superstructure is (I believe) at recreational depths. On an al80? No way. Of course, I wouldn't have done 135 on an al80 either.

[Dmitchell]

Back in the day, we did wreck penetrations, work dives, and all kinds of crazy stuff on AL 80's, 140' was no big deal (I was diving with my dad no less).

Now that I'm older and hopefully wiser, I don't do those things anymore. My choice of equipment has progressed as well. I consider AL 80's bailout or deco bottles. That's just me. Nowadays diving here, I rarely break 100' without either the rebreather or doubles.

Will divers lacking the skill continue to land on the deck, You bet, Is it going to cause problems? You bet- Here's an interesting thought, Divers Carrying DAN basic insurance are not covered if they plan a dive beyond 130' and get hurt.

I know the O is big money to that area but If I was a Dive Op there, I'd either make it tech only or figure out some way to make sure my divers stayed above the deck.

Personally having dove the Spiegel Grove, I don't see the O as all that interesting. The penetration op's on an Aircraft Carrier just don't seem as much fun. The SG was fun but so sterile. Give me a real PNW wreck anyday!

The O was sunk for fishermen, Divers just jumped on board that's why it's so deep.

DM

[Sounder]

Nope. I'm not going to the deck on a single Al80. If my buddy is an expert, as the poll suggests, he/she won't be doing it either.

I think there is a real problem with sending recreational divers to the deck (or putting them on the wreck where they deck is an "attractive nuiscence"), especially having them be on air. Sure, someone still teaches deep-air and folks still dive it here and there, but I don't think encouraging the average AOW-card-carrying "advanced diver" to dive this wreck is a good plan unless they're really not leaving the tower.

Doing the quick math in my head, Rock Bottom for 145fsw on an Al80 is in the neighborhood of 2000psi. So could it be done on an Al80? Sure, but your bottom time will be quite short... NDL time on air will be quite limited too.

Are people REALLY going to be leaving the deck when the first buddy reaches 2000psi? Doubtful, and this is assuming they even know what the heck gas managment is. Then, what if they rack-up a bit of deco? The Rock Bottom value I used here doesn't account for any mandatory stops.

If the dive is done properly on an Al80/air, staying within Rock Bottom and recreational NDL limits, the bottom time is minimal... so then the question is, "why bother?"

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." In other words, so long as everything is ok and nothing goes wrong, you'll most likely be fine... but if something does happen to go wrong, you're screwed as you're lacking the resources you need. 145fsw on an Al80 with air is NOT where I want to get "punched in the face."

[Sounder]

So far there are 4 people saying "Yup, no doubt about it."

Assuming they're actually serious, I'd like to hear their side of the discussion.

[Joshua Smith]

So far there are 4 people saying "Yup, no doubt about it."

Assuming they're actually serious, I'd like to hear their side of the discussion.

I doubt you will- everyone knows what happens when someone writes about doing stuff like that- they get dogpiled by the scuba cops. Like I said- I didn't check the "No doubt about it" box, because I know my SAC rate isn't too good- I would do it, depending on what PSI I was showing as I got closer to the deck.

[Raydar]

Heck, I'd do it. Not horribly interested in the wreck or even see the fascination with touching the deck. But a bounce dive to 140-145' in the tropics? Not a problem.

Granted, would prefer dubs, but wouldn't have a problem with an AL80.

I'd point my scooter straight down, hit the deck within a minute, spend a couple minutes sprinting the deck, then start doing circles around the island on the way up.

It'd be a short dive, but not that difficult.

*waiting for the dogpile*

[Sounder]

Just to be clear - I'm not fishing with the request to hear from others. I retired from the scuba police.

As I pointed out in my post, leaving the gas mix choice out of it, I could do it if it was the mission but with the very limited bottom time it allows, it becomes a question of "why would I bother" for me. Spending the day on a boat, diving in great waters, on a sweet wreck - to only be able to stay a couple minutes seems a waste. Others may see it differently and value those couple minutes in a completely different way from me... this is what I am interested in.

As far as the dogpile goes, if someone wants to know why I wouldn't do it they can read my post. If they want to know more, I'm available by PM as are many others who are happy to explain it.

[Sounder]

Heck, I'd do it. Not horribly interested in the wreck or even see the fascination with touching the deck. But a bounce dive to 140-145' in the tropics? Not a problem.

Granted, would prefer dubs, but wouldn't have a problem with an AL80.

I'd point my scooter straight down, hit the deck within a minute, spend a couple minutes sprinting the deck, then start doing circles around the island on the way up.

It'd be a short dive, but not that difficult.

*waiting for the dogpile*

DOGPILE!!!

Monkey-dive the O? Sweet. :rr:

[Alex]

I voted no... but only because we're talking "dive" and not "bounce dive". In theory yes you can drop down on the deck check it out then start your ascent.

That's not really much of a "dive"... I wouldn't have a problem doing this with an HP130 I think you have what about 6-8 minutes of non-deco time at that depth Depending on your tables I guess. Then you can come up to 70 hang around the tower and start making your ascent since you're most likely running low on gas.

[ljjames]

I'd be his buddy

Monkey dive the b*tch with CUDAbaby!

Heck, I'd do it. Not horribly interested in the wreck or even see the fascination with touching the deck. But a bounce dive to 140-145' in the tropics? Not a problem.

Granted, would prefer dubs, but wouldn't have a problem with an AL80.

I'd point my scooter straight down, hit the deck within a minute, spend a couple minutes sprinting the deck, then start doing circles around the island on the way up.

It'd be a short dive, but not that difficult.

*waiting for the dogpile*

[Romer Treece]

I was thinking the same thing-monkey monkey monkey!!!!

[BDub]

I was thinking the same thing-monkey monkey monkey!!!!

That's cause that's all you ever think about!

[Burntchef]

i would go, it would not be my first choice but if no dubs were available and this was my one shot to see it sure i would go. in the end i would rather use that 80 to spend a hour on the shallow reefs in the keys though.

[Sounder]

For the lurkers: The folks saying they'd monkey-dive it are very experienced and accomplished divers. They're not your "average divers."

[Dusty2]

No dog-pile here. My point of view is "What's the purpose?" I have never understood the big deal with numbers on a dial? So you did 200' the other day? Did the world change? Does anybody else really care? Did you find that pot of gold down there? Is it a world record? Free divers have been much deeper than 145' with no tank!

I am perfectly content within recreational limits in fact I seldom go much beyond 100' Why? not because I can't. Simply because I don't see any reason. The numbers that I am looking for are how long I was down there blowing bubbles and seeing great stuff. for me more depth = less time to enjoy. For those properly trained and equipped guys that get a thrill from conquering the depths I say "more power to you" enjoy and be safe.

[Joshua Smith]

No dog-pile here. My point of view is "What's the purpose?" I have never understood the big deal with numbers on a dial? So you did 200' the other day? Did the world change? Does anybody else really care? Did you find that pot of gold down there? Is it a world record? Free divers have been much deeper than 145' with no tank!

I am perfectly content within recreational limits in fact I seldom go much beyond 100' Why? not because I can't. Simply because I don't see any reason. The numbers that I am looking for are how long I was down there blowing bubbles and seeing great stuff. for me more depth = less time to enjoy. For those properly trained and equipped guys that get a thrill from conquering the depths I say "more power to you" enjoy and be safe.

The purpose, in this case, is pretty clear. There's an aircraft carrier down there.

[airsix]

Laura, Dan, Raydar, Howard...
Would you do it on air? Since the scenario is for an Al80 I assumed air. That's as big a personal issue for me as the gas volume. Am I being a pansy with my narcosis concerns?

-Ben

[Joshua Smith]

Like everything else, it's a personal choice. For myself, 130 on air is just fine, especially in warm clear water.

Laura, Dan, Raydar, Howard...
Would you do it on air? Since the scenario is for an Al80 I assumed air. That's as big a personal issue for me as the gas volume. Am I being a pansy with my narcosis concerns?

-Ben

[Nwbrewer]

I've been close to 130 on EAN locally. I don't get a panic narc, I get really, really calm, and I check my SPG a lot. I don't know if I actually get some narrowed field of vision or not, cause it's always so flippin' dark down there in the sound. So if the question is would I do that same dive on air, from a narcosis perspective it's no different so sure. My issue with the OP's question is the Al80. Not enough gas.

[Alex]

I've been close to 130 on EAN locally. I don't get a panic narc, I get really, really calm, and I check my SPG a lot. I don't know if I actually get some narrowed field of vision or not, cause it's always so flippin' dark down there in the sound. So if the question is would I do that same dive on air, from a narcosis perspective it's no different so sure. My issue with the OP's question is the Al80. Not enough gas.

Jake Let's drink some Coronas and I'll talk you in for a quick bounce

[Raydar]

Laura, Dan, Raydar, Howard...
Would you do it on air? Since the scenario is for an Al80 I assumed air. That's as big a personal issue for me as the gas volume. Am I being a pansy with my narcosis concerns?

-Ben

I assumed we were talking about air.

I don't think that concern about narcosis is being a pansy. People do stupid stuff while narced and only you can decide if this sort of hypothetical dive is for you. Bluewater narcosis doesn't 'appear' to have as much of an effect on me as the green murky crap that we dive in all the time.

Yep, this is a bounce dive. Yep, an 80 isn't enough air to do much. No, I wouldn't go out of my way to dive this way. Given the opportunity to dive the 'O', my choice of equipment would be dub 104's with 21/35 and a 40 of 50%(or O2).

But still, the chance to monkey the 'O'? It's very tempting. Maybe have 2 80's slung.

[Sounder]

Laura, Dan, Raydar, Howard...
Would you do it on air? Since the scenario is for an Al80 I assumed air. That's as big a personal issue for me as the gas volume. Am I being a pansy with my narcosis concerns?

-Ben

I assumed we were talking about air.

I don't think that concern about narcosis is being a pansy. People do stupid stuff while narced and only you can decide if this sort of hypothetical dive is for you. Bluewater narcosis doesn't 'appear' to have as much of an effect on me as the green murky crap that we dive in all the time.

Yep, this is a bounce dive. Yep, an 80 isn't enough air to do much. No, I wouldn't go out of my way to dive this way. Given the opportunity to dive the 'O', my choice of equipment would be dub 104's with 21/35 and a 40 of 50%(or O2).

Ok, but if doing a dual-monkey-dive, would you sling both on the left or one on each side? I can hear the two tanks banging together as you zoom around the wreck on the cuda now.
But still, the chance to monkey the 'O'? It's very tempting. Maybe have 2 80's slung.