Security zones

[CaptnJack]

Now with non-lethal enforcement...

SEATTLE - The Puget Sound-area Coast Guard will begin employing flashbang munitions as a means to warn non-compliant boaters that they are entering a security zone. This notification is being made to bring awareness to Puget Sound boaters, and to assist the Coast Guard with uninterrupted and safe vessel escort operations. The Coast Guard routinely escorts vessels transiting within Puget Sound, enforcing moving security zones around US Navy ships, Washington State ferries, cruise ships, and tank ships. As a part of enforcing these security zones, the Coast Guard is outfitting escort crews with flashbang munitions fired from a 12-gauge shotgun. The flashbang munitions can be fired from a Coast Guard vessel into the path of a vessel that has failed to respond to radio calls and other signals to halt. Once fired, a plastic and aluminum projectile will ignite after approximately 100-meters to create a bright flash of light and loud sound. This is a safe and effective method to gain the attention of a vessel and accurately determine its intent prior to utilizing more aggressive tactics to enforce security zones around vessels and facilities. "The Coast Guard, working with local and state authorities, conducts a vital and complex maritime security mission," said Capt. Eric Chamberlin, Chief of Response for the Thirteenth District, in Seattle. "We are always looking for safe, effective opportunities to better protect our waterways. This new tool will give Coast Guard escort crews the ability to send an unmistakable signal to vessels." If boaters see or hear a flashbang round, they should slow down, establish voice communication with the Coast Guard Patrol Commander on VHF channel 16 and follow the direction of the Coast Guard.

[BASSMAN]

What the ?
I wonder how this might affect the dive community?
Or, have they not thought about that?

[lamont]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

[Sounder]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

[Nwbrewer]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

Aren't these basically an M-80 in a 12 gauge shell? They use these at the airport and sports fields to scare the birds off the away.

Stay out of security zones! As a diver I'm more worried about these guys - http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/tec ... IDS_07.jpg

Jake

[Grateful Diver]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

... that's why Got created flare guns ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dsteding]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

... that's why Got created flare guns ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Problem there is a flare is a signal of distress. Start popping them off at boaters to keep them away from divers and you are likely to get the Coasties out looking for someone in distress.

[Nwbrewer]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

... that's why Got created flare guns ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Problem there is a flare is a signal of distress. Start popping them off at boaters to keep them away from divers and you are likely to get the Coasties out looking for someone in distress.

Red flares are, white flares are "practice flares".

[CaptnJack]

As a diver I'm more worried about these guys - http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/tec ... IDS_07.jpg

Junior!

[airsix]

Aren't these basically an M-80 in a 12 gauge shell? They use these at the airport and sports fields to scare the birds off the away.

I've seen them used to chase bears away from landfills. Just a big firecracker. Nothing like the large hand deployed canister type.

[Marc]

Doesn't seem to be loud enough or blinding enough to be an effective flashbang. They are best deployed in contained area where the noise/flash and concussion are magnified. I would say, in this context, they would be useless.

[Nwbrewer]

Doesn't seem to be loud enough or blinding enough to be an effective flashbang. They are best deployed in contained area where the noise/flash and concussion are magnified. I would say, in this context, they would be useless.

I think the idea is that it's harmless, but gets your attention. They know most of these people are not malicious, just moronic.

[Marc]

Harmless is good, but if you are in an outboard doing 20-25 miles an hour, I would wonder how much you would even hear. I would think that you would have to be in front of them. The other thing that bugs me. 100 meters out of a shotgun? on a moving platform? The shooter would have to be a great shot to even get someone's attention.

Ok, I will let it go now.

[Nwbrewer]

Harmless is good, but if you are in an outboard doing 20-25 miles an hour, I would wonder how much you would even hear. I would think that you would have to be in front of them. The other thing that bugs me. 100 meters out of a shotgun? on a moving platform? The shooter would have to be a great shot to even get someone's attention.

Ok, I will let it go now.

I never said it was a good idea...

[CaptnJack]

Harmless is good, but if you are in an outboard doing 20-25 miles an hour, I would wonder how much you would even hear. I would think that you would have to be in front of them. The other thing that bugs me. 100 meters out of a shotgun? on a moving platform? The shooter would have to be a great shot to even get someone's attention.

Ok, I will let it go now.

Yeah but imagine how much louder it is than the Jimmy Buffet playing on the blow boat

[Grateful Diver]

Actually, I was thinking that dive boats should really carry one of those to attract the attention of boaters after they've failed to notice the dive + alpha flags being flown and are still headed directly over a dive site...

I totally agree. There are several "distraction devices" that can be highly effective in deterring errant boaters.

... that's why Got created flare guns ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Problem there is a flare is a signal of distress. Start popping them off at boaters to keep them away from divers and you are likely to get the Coasties out looking for someone in distress.

... if I'm at a point where I'm firing a flare at someone, then by the time the Coasties get there they will BE in distress ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Lonestar]

Errant boaters aren't the problem. Security zones are establish and publicized sufficiently in advance that competent boaters are able to comply. Weekend warrior boaters (who haven't a clue what a Notice to Mariners is much less how to hear one, and those less well prepared to be out on the water are easily deterred by hailing, use of the siren, or the CG boat approaching in a direct manner. The NFDD's are more appropriate for use against those with malicious intent. Hood Canal used to be a popular place for "protesters" to violate the security zones established for the movement of subs. We had a much, much more effective technique to terminate their voyages when they violated the zones and interfered with safe navigation. The NFDD's are a friendly method and the recipients stay drier! The NFDD's would not have any effect on divers as they too are excluded from security zones.

[Sounder]

Errant boaters aren't the problem. Security zones are establish and publicized sufficiently in advance that competent boaters are able to comply. Weekend warrior boaters (who haven't a clue what a Notice to Mariners is much less how to hear one, and those less well prepared to be out on the water are easily deterred by hailing, use of the siren, or the CG boat approaching in a direct manner. The NFDD's are more appropriate for use against those with malicious intent. Hood Canal used to be a popular place for "protesters" to violate the security zones established for the movement of subs. We had a much, much more effective technique to terminate their voyages when they violated the zones and interfered with safe navigation. The NFDD's are a friendly method and the recipients stay drier! The NFDD's would not have any effect on divers as they too are excluded from security zones.

I love it. Look, the "rules of the rules" apply to everyone... you don't like getting wet or being shot at - don't encroach.

[loanwolf]

One other thing that is being used for deterrent for submerged objects is BlueFins sonar. A while back 4ster and I were doing a very long scooter run testing the 850's north from the T-Dock. After quite some time or running I noticed a boat kept tracking us as you could hear the sonar ping as the engines got closer. With each pass the ping was stronger until it finally hurt my chest and I said the hell with this and we turned around and headed back. When we dropped the scooters off at DX I mentioned it to Ben, just so happens he was meeting with the guys at BlueFin (if I remember correctly) a few days later. He told me after he meet with them that when he told their engineer about it they freaked out. The new sonar I guess can liquefy your internal organs. It hurt my chest hard enough that even a few days later I still did not feel right.

Keep that in mind if you are diving near a restricted area. Some Seaman may hold your life in his hands with just the turn of a dial.

I know many people who over the years have used white flares to warn boats away. Even then they do not get their attention all the time. Fishermen have used bang rounds for years to warn people so I see no big problem with it. Myself I would rather use a slug aimed below the water line most of the time.

[Sounder]

Sonar that can liquefy your internal organs? That must be hell on the wildlife.

[loanwolf]

Sonar that can liquefy your internal organs? That must be hell on the wildlife.

And the Supreme Court ruled this last year that National Security needs out weigh any concerns with marine life.

[Sounder]

Sonar that can liquefy your internal organs? That must be hell on the wildlife.

And the Supreme Court ruled this last year that National Security needs out weigh any concerns with marine life.

Wow. Link??

[nwbobber]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

[Fishstiq]

Sonar that can liquefy your internal organs? That must be hell on the wildlife.

And the Supreme Court ruled this last year that National Security needs out weigh any concerns with marine life.

Wow. Link??

[Norris]

Sonar that can liquefy your internal organs? That must be hell on the wildlife.

And the Supreme Court ruled this last year that National Security needs out weigh any concerns with marine life.

Wow. Link??

ROFL...nice

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