Pony bottle help

[jaytrigg27]

Hello all, I am looking for some gear advice….recently I had a free flowing regulator at 100'.  My buddy and I did the right things and we surfaced safely.  Now I want to have a pony bottle to add another level of redundancy in my gear.  My questions are: what size is optimum to get?  I do not do any tech diving now, I may explore this in the future but probably not in the next year or two.  I would like there to be enough air in it to safely get me up from 130' with a deep stop and safety stop (not that I intend on diving 130' consistently).  I also was wondering placement preferences…with this size pony, is it better to mount on my tank or use as a sling?  I don't do any penetrations yet, but want streamlined, easy access gear.  Thank you in advance for your help!
Jay

[mancub]

I only have experience with a 19 rigged to my tank via the quick release with two pins. I rarely use it. If I were to start using pony bottles more frequently I'd look at a 30 or 40 slung under my left arm. I also am not tech or looking to go that way soon. The 19 just seems a little on the low side for anything over 100'.

That being said, if you decide on a 19 I have a used one with a DIN valve and aqualung first stage I'd let go cheap.

Jacob

[Joshua Smith]

I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than an AL40, personally- and even that's marginal for making an ascent from 130'. As for how to carry it- I'd definitely sling it. I tried every which way to mount one to my primary tank, and hated all of them. Once you get used to slinging one(and it really doesn't take long), it's a breeze. It's also very easy to remove and hand off to another diver, and to get at the valve and regulator, and read read the spg this way. You should also practice using it frequently, to make sure you won't have any problems deploying it in an emergency. And you should definitely NOT plan to use it to extend a dive- that can get you into a bad situation with gas planning, or lack of it.

[jaytrigg27]

Thanks for the input, this would be strictly emergency use, where do you find the sling rigging for a good price?

[scottsax]

Thanks for the input, this would be strictly emergency use, where do you find the sling rigging for a good price?

Here's some good instruction for doing it yourself: http://www.frogkickdiving.com/Deco_Bottle_Rigging.php

[jaytrigg27]

That is awesome! Thanks! Do you see a lot of non tech divers use these for added safety or do you think I'm going a little overboard?

[scottsax]

It really depends what makes you comfortable. I have every intention of tech diving at some point in the future, so all my gear is configured that way, even though I dive single tanks still. I have an AL40 that I sling on occasion because I want to be comfortable with a bottle under my arm. I believe in team diving and team gas planning, so the bottle is just for practice/unnecessary redundancy at this point. (Although, I suppose I could end up paired with a "same ocean" buddy at some point, so having the extra gas couldn't hurt.) In your case, you had a catastrophic gas loss at depth, so if a reserve makes you feel better, go for it! And if you want to really get tweaky on gas planning, attend one of the many free gas management seminars that get advertised here.

[Alexitt]

I'm not a tech diver at all, but I carry a 30 all the time since I got it about 6 mos. ago... I tried slinging it on my Knighthawk but it doesn't have enough rings so I just keep it on my tank until I get a bp/w setup... Works for me and makes the wife happy for the redundancy factor...

[diverden]

I found this site to be a good reference for bottle rigging: http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/stage ... gging.html as well as some other gear HOW TOs. If you do start some technical training, you won't have to unlearn anything and you can build this yourself. The first time I dived with my slung 40, it was a little annoying. The second time I barely noticed it. I'm pretty sure Dive Rite and Light Monkey sell kits.

[Norris]

As you can see by that site, rigging them is pretty easy. I sling my 40 on almost every dive I do, and after a couple times you wont even notice it. I also breath off mine pretty often so that if I do need it, it will be a learned transition.

[Joshua Smith]

That is awesome! Thanks! Do you see a lot of non tech divers use these for added safety or do you think I'm going a little overboard?

Not at all overboard, IMO. As long as you practice with it, it adds a nice margin of safety.

[doug7377]

i like the 30 with a quick release on the side of my main tank it out of the way that what am getting but even a non deco dive a AL19 should be good. if anything ask around see if you can dive both sizes and in both sling and on the side of your tanks to find which way and one you like better.

[jaytrigg27]

My next question would be what are some good brands & models of first and second stages for the pony bottle without breaking the bank?

[doug7377]

mk2/r295
http://www.scubapro.com/americas/englis ... k2plusr295
look at about or under 300.00 at evergreen dive

[Dusty2]

If your on singles I would for sure go with a pony. I wouldn't go any less than a 30. That's what I dive with. The sling is really a good idea if you don't mind a loose tank under your arm. It is by far the most accessible and versatile rig.

As for regs I like the Hog reg for a well built economical reg setup.

[deep diver]

For deeper dive I would for sure go with the biggest that you can comfortably get used too with a sling.
I have a 19 that is hooked to my plate, its small but I can get to the surface. I had my primary quit at 140' and came up without any problem, did my safefy stop at 20 and still had air. If you had to do a longer deco you might be in trouble.

[Sounder]

[E_Mo]

I have a 30 mounted to my single with a cam band mount that has a quick disconnect pin. I keep the regulator on a necklace, so I can switch to it quickly and it is easy for others to see/find. I added a SPG that I keep clipped to my side with a plastic clip. I can read it where it is stored, but if the day comes that I need to use my pony and I want the SPG in close view, I used the plastic clip so I could just pull the SPG away, breaking the clip, so I don't have to worry about fumbling with opening clips or anything. I did this as I know in high stress situations (such as a OOA situation) fine motor skills (such as manipulating a clip spring) are the first thing to go out the window.

[gutholmj]

I sling a 40 on every dive. I want the redundancy because I solo and I want the consistency even when I don't solo. As others have said, after the first few dives with it, you will not even notice that it is there. I've found one exception though. If you are taking photographs and need to get low to take a shot, it can get in the way. The valve/reg hang lower than the rest and especially when I need to roll to the left, I must to be careful to not bury the reg in the mud. If I had to do it again and had unlimited funds, I'd probably investigate the idea of doing 2 small twinsets like LP72s or HP80s. Then again, if I had unlimited funds...

[Nwbrewer]

I'll preface this by stating that I don't dive with a pony, so take it for what it's worth. I also believe in having my backup plan include having enough gas to do a normal, controlled ascent to the surface.

If you're doing deep dives, even just to the edge of recreational limits, please consider a 40. In my opinion 19 cu is simply not enough to get you safely to the surface from 130fsw.

I know this thing has been covered a few times, but you asked for opinions. (This is based on my definition of a normal ascent, YMMV)

Breaking it down -
1 min at the 130 to get your pony deployed, sorted out, and figure out WTF just happened to you.
2 min to get up to 60' at an ascent rate of ~30fpm
1 min stop at 60'
6 min to the surface at an ascent rate of ~10fpm
Total time 10 minutes, average depth let's call it 3ata (66feet) because it makes the math easy.

Allowing for a stressed diver RMV at 1.0 cu/min (some might be more, some less, but this is a good place to start)-

1cu/min * 10min = 10cu/1ata (consumption at the surface)
10cu/1ata * 3ata = 30cu

That means that if everything goes well, with a normal ascent from 130, 19 cu is NOT enough gas, and a 30 would be EMPTY when I hit the surface. A 40cu is a better choice.

Can you get to the surface on a 19 if that's all you had? Sure, the fact that Deep Diver is posting says you CAN do it. I'd prefer to pack enough gas that I don't have to modify my ascent procedure, and allow for the fact that in a lot of places around here straight up **might** not be my best option. With the minimal cost difference and resale value considerations, I'd get a 40.

Again, YMMV, but that's my perspective on it.

Good luck with your decision,

Jake

[Dusty2]

Good post Jake! Makes more since when you see it laid out like that.

[jaytrigg27]

All,
Thank you for your posts!  I am definitely looking at the 40, I have only dove to 100' or deeper a few times, but for planning purposes I wanted to plan the worst case scenario and make sure I had a back up plan in place that would put me on the surface safely following a conservative ascent plan.  That is why I want to plan on 130' when the failure occurs.  This way if I can make it up safely from 130', then I know I am good to go as long as I stay 130' or shallower.  Thanks again for all your help and advice! 

[ktb]

All,
Thank you for your posts!  I am definitely looking at the 40, I have only dove to 100' or deeper a few times, but for planning purposes I wanted to plan the worst case scenario and make sure I had a back up plan in place that would put me on the surface safely following a conservative ascent plan.  That is why I want to plan on 130' when the failure occurs.  This way if I can make it up safely from 130', then I know I am good to go as long as I stay 130' or shallower.  Thanks again for all your help and advice! 

Jay,

I've been thinking about adding a pony bottle myself, so thanks for asking the question!!

[Sounder]

All,
Thank you for your posts!  I am definitely looking at the 40, I have only dove to 100' or deeper a few times, but for planning purposes I wanted to plan the worst case scenario and make sure I had a back up plan in place that would put me on the surface safely following a conservative ascent plan.  That is why I want to plan on 130' when the failure occurs.  This way if I can make it up safely from 130', then I know I am good to go as long as I stay 130' or shallower.  Thanks again for all your help and advice! 

Also remember, a failure doesn't always mean all your backgas is gone. Even if it's spewing out in a loud, bubbly mess (such as 1st stage failure, tank-neck failure, LP hose failure), you'll still likely have time to breathe off it before it goes dry. If a second-stage goes, remember you have your other second stage (still start your ascent and have your alternate ready if you have one), but know that even a "boom-fizz" doesn't necessarily mean all your backgas is gone immediately.

Other than that, Jake is spot-on with his break-down. Al40 is the way to go.

[Edge]

And if you want to really get tweaky on gas planning, attend one of the many free gas management seminars that get advertised here.

Looks like Jake is offering the next one! Nice post, Jake.