Could someone explain BC Wings to me?

[Daniel379ba]

I've been reading magazines, diving pretty often and reading this forum probably more often and sometimes I've stumbled upon the option of wings on a bc.

I did a little research and from what I got I think they are for tech divers, hard to use but provide more space up front and that they are the bladder of the bc just attached to your back extending out like wings?

Is there any better way to describe what they are and if this is what they really war?
Thanks!

[Jeff Pack]

Not just for tech divers, rather advanced recreational divers OR tech divers.

You'll find most advanced (I said most, not all!) divers move to a backplate and wing because of the flexibility and choices.

[Dusty2]

Wings are used with a back-plate system to create a BCD. They have the same purpose as the bladder you find on BCD's only this is a modular system that allows you to customize it to your own needs rather than a one piece system like a BCD
Nothing magical about it, and no it is not just for tech divers. It is simply a system that allows you to pic and choose the bits to make your BCD. Read this page and it should explain it to you and here is a picture
http://www.divegearexpress.com/bcs/hogarthian.shtml

[Jeremy]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic- ... -wing.html

[Jeremy]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

[Jeremy]

I have a practically new Zeagle Ranger you can buy if you want.

[Daniel379ba]

I have a practically new Zeagle Ranger you can buy if you want.

How much? I just bought a BC so it would have to be cheap to convince my mom haha. That or I start saving.
I have the TUSA X-pert bcd rear inflating and I like it alot, whats the difference between rear inflating and wings?
Just placement of things?

[Daniel379ba]

And thank you everyone for the info. :-)

[LCF]

Basically, all BCs, or "buoyancy compensators", are there to allow you to adjust your buoyancy to remain neutral, both in the face of compression of your exposure protection with depth, and as you use the gas in your tank and become lighter. They do this by incorporating an air bladder, and a method of filling and emptying it.

There are currently three basic designs: The jacket, the back-inflate, and the backplate and wing. (The BP/W is actually a type of back-inflate, but is usually considered separately.)

Jacket BCs are designed so that the air bladder wraps around your waist, as well as going up your back. This works well to hold the diver vertical on the surface, when the bladder is full of air. Underwater, you don't need much air if you are correctly weighted, so the front part that wraps around you is generally empty. The advantage is easy balance on the surface; the downside is that the front part of the BC tends to be very bulky, and some people don't like the squeezing feeling you get when you inflate the bladder and it expands all the way around you.

Back inflate BCs have the air bladder entirely behind the diver. This puts all the lift behind the diver when on the surface; with very light tanks and little weight, it can require the diver to lean back a little to balance on the surface. This is not generally a problem in cold water, where steel tanks are preferred, because you have all that negative stuff on your back, too. Back-inflates leave the front of the body much less cluttered.

Both jackets and back-inflates typically have various areas of padding, which renders them positive, and it is necessary to carry up to 3 or 4 pounds of lead, just to sink the BC. In addition, being integrated systems, if you have a problem with a strap or with the bladder, the entire unit has to go in for repair or replacement.

The backplate and wing is a type of back-inflate, where the stability of the tank is provided by a metal or plastic plate, to which is attached some kind of a harness. The air bladder is an entirely separate piece, which can be attached to the plate in various ways, depending on the design. Where a stainless steel plate is used, the big advantages are tank stability and the fact that, rather than requiring lead to sink, the system becomes part of the diver's ballast, being 5 or 6 pounds negative. All of the components of the system can be repaired or replaced separately -- if a strap wears out, you can reweb the harness, which can be very cheap if you are using the simple continuous webbing system. If the bladder is punctured, it can be repaired or replaced without replacing the plate and harness.

In addition, if you want to dive double tanks, the same plate can be used, and only a different air bladder, or "wing", needs to be bought.

If you walk up and down the local dive sites, you'll see a lot of backplate systems. That's because, with their built-in ballast, they make a lot of sense for our local, cold water diving.

[spatman]

Great write up, Lynne!

[Nwbrewer]

I've been reading magazines, diving pretty often and reading this forum probably more often and sometimes I've stumbled upon the option of wings on a bc.

I did a little research and from what I got I think they are for tech divers, hard to use but provide more space up front and that they are the bladder of the bc just attached to your back extending out like wings?

Is there any better way to describe what they are and if this is what they really war?
Thanks!

Both paulicarp and I have loaners, why don't you try one out and see how you like it?

[Daniel379ba]

I've been reading magazines, diving pretty often and reading this forum probably more often and sometimes I've stumbled upon the option of wings on a bc.

I did a little research and from what I got I think they are for tech divers, hard to use but provide more space up front and that they are the bladder of the bc just attached to your back extending out like wings?

Is there any better way to describe what they are and if this is what they really war?
Thanks!

Both paulicarp and I have loaners, why don't you try one out and see how you like it?

I'm friends with Paul so someday I might!

[H20doctor]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

I dive a bc , and I can trim and hover with the best of tec / rec divers.. So its not always true that a BC is better.. Its more the diver and how they have learned their gear..

[Jeremy]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

I dive a bc , and I can trim and hover with the best of tec / rec divers.. So its not always true that a BC is better.. Its more the diver and how they have learned their gear..

You say you can hover...but I can personally testify to our diver here that you enjoy sitting in the mud near the geodome, silting the place out, and blowing air rings from 60 feet. That's BC behavior imo

[H20doctor]

Ha...i guess you assume a fun dive, vrs a skill dive.. Fun dives are for fun and silting.. Rec dives are for exploring and non silting .. Which I have training in both.. Over ten years worth, and thousands of logged dives
Are you a fun killer jeremy ?
I have a silt class coming up , into to silt 1, and advanced silt..
lets break this down shall we...
air rings are for telling your dive friends , hey i have learned a cool underwater skill by useing my lungs to create a perfect circle of air that rises up to the surface.. it also can signal your friend that is just being boring, and hovering and not looking at nudis, or other small creatures, that often get missed by hovering, because the diver is too focused on trim that he or she often misses the small creatures of the sea..you need to get down to there small level , and this requires touching the bottom with your knees to film them or take pics of them
Silting is great training for zero vis conditions.. the best silting occurs when i take my Xscooter and create a massive silt out.. then as a diver you have to focus on getting out of the silt bomb, and staying calm and relaxed.. you can rise up out of the silt cloud, by adjusting depth.. or you can kick your way out of the silt bomb finding clear water in front of you, or behind you.. its best to pratice silt bombs with your compass, that way you have a nav heading.. as i do dive the muk, i also dive other places.. deception pass, Neah Bay, wrecks in florida , and other high current areas, often times being seperated , and forced to be a solo dive , relying on myself ..

[Norris]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

This statement sounds a little biased and its not surprising considering the route you have taken as a diver. I do NOT mean that as an insult in any way. Good trim is accomplished by the diver and experience. Be it a jacket BC, back inflate, or BP/wing. You put a noob in any of these systems and you are not going to experience a magical transition to perfect trim.
All items generally require a little tweak here and there, depending on the diver, to trim out correctly. Yes I agree that I have not seen anyone go from BP/wing back to jacket style, but to make statements that BCDs other than BP/W are crap with your tank flopping around, all kinds of drag to slow you down, and more work is somewhat false.
I have dived with Chris too and I concur that he has fun sometimes with the air rings and being on his back goofing around. Having fun while diving is one of the many reasons I dive. For some its not all about drills and showing others just how trim you can swim. Chris has excellent trim. You may have not dived with him when he is taking pictures and filming, but rest assured I have.

[selkie]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

This statement sounds a little biased and its not surprising considering the route you have taken as a diver. I do NOT mean that as an insult in any way. Good trim is accomplished by the diver and experience. Be it a jacket BC, back inflate, or BP/wing. You put a noob in any of these systems and you are not going to experience a magical transition to perfect trim.
All items generally require a little tweak here and there, depending on the diver, to trim out correctly. Yes I agree that I have not seen anyone go from BP/wing back to jacket style, but to make statements that BCDs other than BP/W are crap with your tank flopping around, all kinds of drag to slow you down, and more work is somewhat false.
I have dived with Chris too and I concur that he has fun sometimes with the air rings and being on his back goofing around. Having fun while diving is one of the many reasons I dive. For some its not all about drills and showing others just how trim you can swim. Chris has excellent trim. You may have not dived with him when he is taking pictures and filming, but rest assured I have.

I went back to a jacket BC but then when I learned to dive we walked on the bottom, didn't wear fins, or BCDs.

[Norris]

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

This statement sounds a little biased and its not surprising considering the route you have taken as a diver. I do NOT mean that as an insult in any way. Good trim is accomplished by the diver and experience. Be it a jacket BC, back inflate, or BP/wing. You put a noob in any of these systems and you are not going to experience a magical transition to perfect trim.
All items generally require a little tweak here and there, depending on the diver, to trim out correctly. Yes I agree that I have not seen anyone go from BP/wing back to jacket style, but to make statements that BCDs other than BP/W are crap with your tank flopping around, all kinds of drag to slow you down, and more work is somewhat false.
I have dived with Chris too and I concur that he has fun sometimes with the air rings and being on his back goofing around. Having fun while diving is one of the many reasons I dive. For some its not all about drills and showing others just how trim you can swim. Chris has excellent trim. You may have not dived with him when he is taking pictures and filming, but rest assured I have.

I went back to a jacket BC but then when I learned to dive we walked on the bottom, didn't wear fins, or BCDs.

Sweet now I can say I know someone!!!!

[Jeremy]

Ha...i guess you assume a fun dive, vrs a skill dive.. Fun dives are for fun and silting.. Rec dives are for exploring and non silting .. Which I have training in both.. Over ten years worth, and thousands of logged dives
Are you a fun killer jeremy ?
I have a silt class coming up , into to silt 1, and advanced silt..
lets break this down shall we...
air rings are for telling your dive friends , hey i have learned a cool underwater skill by useing my lungs to create a perfect circle of air that rises up to the surface.. it also can signal your friend that is just being boring, and hovering and not looking at nudis, or other small creatures, that often get missed by hovering, because the diver is too focused on trim that he or she often misses the small creatures of the sea..you need to get down to there small level , and this requires touching the bottom with your knees to film them or take pics of them
Silting is great training for zero vis conditions.. the best silting occurs when i take my Xscooter and create a massive silt out.. then as a diver you have to focus on getting out of the silt bomb, and staying calm and relaxed.. you can rise up out of the silt cloud, by adjusting depth.. or you can kick your way out of the silt bomb finding clear water in front of you, or behind you.. its best to pratice silt bombs with your compass, that way you have a nav heading.. as i do dive the muk, i also dive other places.. deception pass, Neah Bay, wrecks in florida , and other high current areas, often times being seperated , and forced to be a solo dive , relying on myself ..

lol

anyway, I drag fun out it's lair and beat it to death imo

[Jeremy]

This statement sounds a little biased and its not surprising considering the route you have taken as a diver.

Why? I dove 150 dives in a Zeagle Ranger BC and another 50 in a Halcyon BP/W....seems like I'm qualified to report my experience.

Yes I agree that I have not seen anyone go from BP/wing back to jacket style, but to make statements that BCDs other than BP/W are crap with your tank flopping around, all kinds of drag to slow you down, and more work is somewhat false.

I agree, but I didn't say BC's were crap. I said they were a waste in my case and wish I had just bought a BP/W in the first place. I posted a link to like 25 pages of people going back and forth on this topic, I don't really have a dog in this show. I do have a Ranger for sale.

Chris has excellent trim.

Well duh, I've dove with him and he's an excellent (and fun) diver.

[Norris]

As long as we are quoting each other....

Lots of opinions in that link. Personally, starting with a jacket BC was a waste for me and if I could do it over I would have bought a BP/W to start with.

The quote above was the only thing where you share "personal" experience.

Jacket BC's do not fit as snug, have increased drag, more discomfort, and your tank moves around more. Achieving precision buoyancy is a battle and more work for the diver means less fun on the dive. And if you want the option to move into doubles you will want a BP/W anyway.

This statement, being given to someone asking that is relatively new does not sound like a "my opinion" statement and again to generalize and say that "JACKET BCs" are guilty of everything you stated is just not true. I have at least a hundred dives on a knighthawk and didnt suffer from ANY of the claims you made above.

A BP/W is very snug, very precise, and fits you EXACTLY. You are extremely comfortable and streamlined. You can float in perfect trim quite easily. And you can use the setup with doubles by going to a doubles wing.

This is mainly the biased part of what I was talking about. So I applaud your experience but I just think we need to be careful when people are asking questions that we don't sweeten up the facts to impress them to sway a certain way. If you buy a BP/W you will not suddenly be streamlined and perfectly trimmed.

Oh and poking fun at someone that dives a BC and not your setup seems a little counterproductive. I know it was all in fun, in a passive agressive kinda way...

[Jeremy]

lol
















imo

[Jeremy]

I have a practically new Zeagle Ranger you can buy if you want.

How much? I just bought a BC so it would have to be cheap to convince my mom haha.

Yours for $250 bro, it's in great condition.

[CaptnJack]

Oh and poking fun at someone that dives a BC and not your setup seems a little counterproductive. I know it was all in fun, in a passive agressive kinda way...

That's ok, we all know you are just being contrarian in the classic PNW kinda way

[Norris]

Oh and poking fun at someone that dives a BC and not your setup seems a little counterproductive. I know it was all in fun, in a passive agressive kinda way...

That's ok, we all know you are just being contrarian in the classic PNW kinda way

Ouch! Naw I don't disagree to just go against the grain, I just try and assure that answers given are not biased and the product of aggressive programming. I applaud LCFs response, nice and evenly distributed.



oh yeah, and the fact that I LOVE this smiley